My own *personal* (i.e. not representing Stardock here) gripes have to do with modding and AI.  Having modded a lot of games, including Civ IV, I have been somewhat irked at times at the level of hand holding that some people in the modding community expect. 

But that's nothing compared to the AI gripes. I don't think they realize how demotivational that is.  The AI in FE is already pretty good. It can be better. Lots better and I enjoy working on AI.  But I don't enjoy working on AI so that some forum guy who thinks kiting in tactical battles while gobbling healing potions is somehow a strategic genius.

That is genius!  Why haven't I thought of this before!? 

I don't blame Frogboy for limiting his forum exposure time.  Forums generally do not contain a good SNR, and people are too quick to dissect every word a developer writes.  I'm just glad he stops by to say hi from time to time and tries to be as informal as allowed.  It's all one can really ask out of a developer, especially one as busy as Frogboy here.

While your comment was in jest, I have to say, they made Windows 8 usable as a desktop OS.  Anyone in IT that has to migrate users to Windows 8 knows Start8 is worth more than it's asking cost.

shadows, meh....not really interested.

better get that MP coder....

Has anyone caught that line where those two guys work constantly on a new game that absolutely has to have MP on...

AAAARGHHHHHH

Spill your beans, SPILL YOUR BEANS NOW

But modding helps extend the life of the product and generate enthusiasm for free.

Isn't that worth the frustration of hand holding?

How many other industries get their customers to volunteer their time in improving the product?

Kiting works IRL also.  Just ask folks who fought the Mongols.  Imagine Mongols with healing potions.

I think when folks complain about kiting, it's more a balance issue (mounts, particuarly the lack of cost/maintenance with mounts) instead of an AI issue.  

Mounts+archery/staves should have an additional multiplier on top of that.  Training cavalry archers was super-difficult IRL.

You got two networkcoders and they have to code up to 5 games.

I've always thought that enabling MP was flippin a switch and setting up players and that doing that would take like 1h. Guess I was wrong 

Can't one of'em work one day on FE:LH or is more time needed?

Tom "trololol" Chick with his "review" of Heart of the Swarm....oh MAN!   I've NEVER seen anyone get so much shit for giving a good game a bad review!   Can't believe Metacritic includes his "review".

Well, atleast he's getting lots and lots of pagehits....I'm surprised he didn't put a big trollface at the end of his "review".

Not really.

In Civ IV, modders had to write c++ code to hack the ability to change graphics. In FE, we get complaints that the built-in editors aren't consumer friendly enough. in other games, modders would write that.

I used to hang out on a French site called CanardPC. And I honestly thought that if we just worked hard enough and made the game really good they'd like it. But there is no threshold to cross where they'd ever admit that the game is good. So I gave up on them.  I feel that way about some of our modders that way.  As an end user, I could write a pretty impressive role playing game with base FE. I could do a Civilization V style total conversion with FE out of the box.  Yea, it would require me to write some C++ code to juggle around XML files a bit but it's a lot less work than Civ IV required to do meaningful mods with it.

I happen to know a guy who made a pretty significant Civ IV mod and he'd be the first to tell you that FE, out of the box, is more mod friendly than Civ IV.  

There's a big difference between a game being mod friendly and a game being some sort of universal toolset. 

Sorry Frogboy, but just because your game is closer to being mod friendly than another game doesn't mean it's 100% mod friendly. 

The fact that InternalNames don't get overwritten from the MODS folder in a consistent way is a pretty significant issue.

If you aren't going to put labor hours into fixes like that, then just say so.  I think many of us will understand and either put the work into hacking the core code or we'll just move on.  But when you say something like "we'll fix the modding issues later" (paraphrasing) and you don't deliver, then there is a problem with communication. 

I for one would gladly pay 20, 30, or even 50 dollars if you were to put out a significant modding patch/expansion.  I know your people don't apply their talents for free; neither do I.  But modding for me is a hobby.  I have no knowledge - and no desire or time to learn the knowledge - how to fix the broken modding tools.  

I'm not even sure what "100%" mod friendly is.  

Each update we improve the modding and we get little credit.  Therefore, it makes more sense to put resources into other areas of the game.  After LH, I don't plan to put any particular focus on modding in our future titles (not just Elemental games but any Stardock games). That isn't to say that they won't be moddable, it's just that there's insufficient ROI on creating tools and such specifically with modders in mind.

If a game is sufficiently successful in the marketplace, the modders will come, whether the tools are friendly or not.  In hindsight, it was a mistake to spend the resources on all the mod tools we have because those are resources that could have been put into areas that appeal to most players and the mod community would likely have been able to accomplish nearly as much.

Derek and I have made a list of features and improvements to the tools and such that should help modders in LH.  But after the release of LH, there won't be any engineering hours spent on mod-specific features.  

Brad's trolling his own forums!  Lol!

Isn't the problem that mods break updates and vice-versa?  I didn't touch the mods much basically because my impression was that mods pretty much destroyed the stability of the game. 

Of course, every mod that I am aware of was focused on "fixing" FE in one way or another.  So maybe the flexibility FE provides modders doesn't hit the areas that they deal with most often (like extensibility and compatibility).

Now I know exactly what to expect.  Thank you.

But won't such investment benefit not only potential modders, but also the developers themselves?

If the modding framework is robust and friendly enough so that game mechanics can actually be implemented and tested more quickly by the designers in your team, without relying on any input from programmers, won't that be a clear win? Won't that free up precious bandwidth on the programming department, as they usually are the most bottle-necked in a typical production environment anyway?

The biggest problem is that we don't have a consistent and reliable way to execute our mods without overwriting core XML files, which just makes using mods more of a hassle for the end user.  So, to answer your question...sort of.

Hey Brad

Who cares about modders (like shadows ).  I agree, if a game is good, people will mod it.  Too many dabblers, the pros can work around the heavy stuff.

GalCiv 2 had the best AI I have played against.  I hope FE can be worked to the same degree

AI is what really separates Stardock games imho, it's your competitive advantage!

Well thanks for what you have done Frogboy. I for one have greatly appreciated all the modding tools you have given us. As someone who is not a professional programmer I can say for certain that I could have done nothing without the included editors and xml support. I know some people come off as entitled but that's the internet for you. Ignore them. Your AI is wonderful, and is constantly getting better.

I can't say anything more then 1-2 tiny things related to modding have ever been mentioned in any changelogs, and I have read them all.  If you don't feel our concerns are valid you can ignore us, your the boss and that's totally your prerogative, but it's silly to get depressed or angry over one recent request thread.