Brad Wardell's site for talking about the customization of Windows.

The Internet is toxic, but its toxicity is usually equal opportunity

One of the more annoying trends in our society has been the substitution of action with rhetoric.  This has really taken off in the age of Twitter where people think hashtags are a replacement for actually doing something.

Today I read an Opinion Piece on Polygon called “No Skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry”  by a woman named Brianna Wu. It's an article I recommend checking out.

However, I do have some criticisms of the piece. For starters, it is a bad piece of journalism. It relies completely on sensationalist emotionalism to back up its blanket assertion (“the daily harassment of women in the game industry”). 

Such articles, even opinion pieces, are apparently not open to discussion.  As soon as I expressed some criticism on Twitter the haters came out in force. All sense of reason evaporated.  My criticism was: Be aware that sometimes allegations of sexual harassment are false (remember what happened to me). Sometimes, some women choose to take criticism/teasing/abuse as being due to their sex. 

Let me give you the part from the article that caused me to write my tweet in the first place. 

This is the example Ms. Wu provides as an example of sexual harassment women face:

Two things to point out about this: First, anonymous user (which is one of the sources of why Internet discussion can get so toxic) and second, while clearly abusive, this has nothing to do with the writer being female.  I have gotten tweets to me very similar to this when I've made a casual tweet regarding a game console. Ask Phil Fish about internet abuse. Trolls will cater their trolling to their target.

The point of my tweet is that we need to be careful on this because *sometimes* the allegation that it's *sexual* harassment is false. 

The article provides 4 such anecdotes. The Internet has plenty of vile behavior that many of us run into regularly. But this article tries to make sweeping conclusions with it. I take issue with articles that make sweeping (and arguably sexist) charges against men using 4 anecdotes as evidence.

If we were debating any other topic and someone made a broad, far reaching claim and backed it up with nothing more than 4 anecdotal examples they’d get reamed.  But because we are talking about an ism, it is taboo to raise any skepticism about the article’s agenda.

I’ve been in the game industry a long time. I’ve seen its ugliness in many different forms. So let me tell you: This subject matter is delicate and should be treated as such. 

So let's look at the responses I got when I tweeted that women sometimes make false claims of "sexual harassment" when in fact what they received had nothing to do with their sex:

To which I respond:

Which gets:

Buzzfeed's Nicol Leffel goes right to name-calling almost immediately.

Ugh. There were much more vile responses than these but I blocked them and now I can't find them on twitter.  The point being, even attempting to discuss the topic invites assumptions of sexism and abuse.

There IS misogyny in the game industry but not where the professional victims would have you believe

The misogyny I've seen in our industry is not representative of game culture in general but is a manifestation of Internet toxicity. Let's start with the sexist reaction successful women in the game industry often receive. When a man does something impressive and gets some publicity, they get kudos and support.  But if a woman does something impressive and gets the same publicity, their experience is likely to be terrible and humiliating.  I’ve seen this first hand and it’s discouraging.  But it would be wrong to imply that this is a general issue. Internet culture is toxic.  

...But we have to be careful that this issue isn't exploited by opportunistic people to for professional or personal gain.

I have first hand experience with this. Those of you who know me know the hell I went through when I was falsely accused of "sexual harassment" by a former, opportunistic employee who was hoping for a quick pay off.  

Let me say it plainly: There are women who will exploit this delicate topic for financial or professional gain. Maybe they’re “journalists” who know it’s a quick, easy way to get their article published on Kotaku. Maybe it’s a former journalist whose just gotten into the game industry who wants her upcoming project to get coverage. Or maybe it’s a young woman mad at her boss who wants to exploit the issue to make money. And of course, maybe it’s a legitimate reporting on a serious problem. But sorry, I’m a skeptic now. I didn’t use to be such a skeptic but 2 years of unwarranted smears and death threats have made me take these claims with a grain of salt.

So what can we do?

I’m an engineer, I’m interested in solutions and I think there is a lot we can do to address this issue:

  1. Punish people who harass other people. I.e. Permanently ban someone who writes the kind of disgusting invective that the article cites.  XBox Live and other services allow for an immense level of abuse of all kinds. Don’t tolerate it anymore.
     
  2. Eliminate anonymous profiles on social networks like Xbox Live, Twitter, YouTube. Game sites could eliminate comment anonymity if they were genuinely concerned about this issue.  Anonymity has a place on the net -- forums, groups, etc.  But mainstream social networking should not be anonymous. Maybe it's not doable but as long as it is, trolls will be able to exploit this.
     (I've changed my mind on #2)

  3. Encourage / Reward those who actually DO something. The reason “white knighting” is despised is because it’s really about people making themselves feel good about themselves.   Less rewarding of progressive rhetoric and more reward of progressive action.
     
  4. Encourage people to talk about the transformative effects of a more diversified working environment. We hire a lot of women because it makes our products better. Not because women are “just as good” as men but rather because men and women bring unique strengths.

    Running a company dominated by one sex puts them at a distinct disadvantage in the talent area.  Men and women are different.  Here’s a “sexist” statement: It has been my experience that women are better at UI design than men. I have no idea why. That’s 20 years of observation talking. Men tend to be better at debugging. No idea why. Don’t care. Both seem to be equally effective at writing buggy code.

     
  5. Scrutinize and punish those who make false claims on this topic. We need to be very very careful about tarring and feathering people on this issue. Don’t reward those who are trying to profit from playing the sexism card.

Choose to be part of the solution: Do your part to make the Internet a less toxic environment. Don’t just blindly support empty, feel good pap. Keep your critical thinking cap on.

Update: Slashdot comments are very interesting and in stark contrast to the empty progressive rhetoric on Twitter. http://games-beta.slashdot.org/story/14/07/22/229256/the-daily-harassment-of-women-in-the-game-industry

Update 2: Added more content, added item #2 regarding anonymity. Fixed Typos. (see edit history).

Update 3: Added pics from Twitter.

Update 4: Typos, streamlined.

Update 5: Crossed out item 2. I've been persuaded that it's a bad idea. 


Comments (Page 4)
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on Jul 23, 2014

psychoak

I've seen that sentiment a lot, it probably wasn't poor phrasing, just poor rationale.

 

Feminism shares the same traits any emotionally charged ideological strain does, an inability for most applicants to rationally view the subject they're partaking an extremist view in.  Radical feminists will necessarily share many of the same traits they deride in their misogynist opposition because they're more two sides of the same coin than anything.

 

The people with the clearest view on purely emotional issues are generally those that really don't give a red rats ass either way.  Once someone locks into a perspective, their mind skews reality to fit it.  It's not something plainly intellectual, like math, or even a combination subject, like economics.  It's a a subject that resides in the realm of emotion, which is why we end up with people that think everything a man does for a woman is an insult, and everything women do is some conniving attempt to manipulate a man.  When you hit rock bottom in your delusions of animosity, a simple polite gesture, that likely wasn't even done with regard to gender in the first place, becomes an attack.  At this point, all men are the devil, and statements such as the above are just minor details in life.

on Jul 23, 2014

garion333

I'm saying you belittled their experiences by claiming yours (rightfully or not) were worse.

Curiously I read that as 'women should not be singled out as the sole recipients of online abuse, as is evidenced by my [Frogboy's] own experience/s of same'.

99% of online 'argument' is down to word-choice, pure and simple.

Expressing an opinion, PARTICULARLY with someone who may be in an 'extremity' of social normalcy will almost always be mis-construed for point-scoring or troll-worthiness ...

on Jul 23, 2014

Broken Forum is the gift that just keeps giving. If you guys won't go over there let me give you the details...

They spend a few posts showing Brad's big house and critiquing it from a google maps picture. Then one of them writes:

Is there a perception that people on Broken Forum are...well...broken? What's with the 'failures in life' comment? Normally, I would chalk it up to some random insult that is the equivalent of calling us all losers, but there was something specific in the wording that led me to wonder if there's some reason why people think of us as losers? I get that not being a CEO makes us losers of a sort to Brad, but again, I'm not sure that's what he meant there.

It's like DUH. Yea you're a bunch of losers. What gave you the clue? The fact you post pictures of other people's big houses and whine about them or the fact that half of you are only there because you already got banned from other forums? They're so deluded that they think we're sock puppets of Brad. Out of touch with reality.

on Jul 23, 2014

Broken Forum is the gift that just keeps giving. If you guys won't go over there let me give you the details...

Silence, sock puppet!

To answer the person you quoted's question is this:

They're losers because they do nothing but throw figurative spitwads at people they are envious of.  The fact they posted a picture of my house really says it all.

They're obsessed with me personally despite the fact that I agree with them on nearly 90% of the issues they care about. So what's their real beef?

It starts with QT3.

They're game industry wannabes. They've romanticized being in the game industry and in the decade or so since we've "known" each other they've made no progress while when we met we were a < 10 person shop and in that time we've grown and become very successful. Rather than look at their own failings (or question why they've been banned) they instead lash out in the most personal way possible.

If you were to actually sit one of them in a room and try to get them to logically explain their hatred they'd be incoherent because we actually agree on virtually every issue. 

Henry Crossen (BillD) tweeted me about the "failure" of Elemental. So let's give some examples they might latch on:

  1. Elemental was a bad game when released. Yep. It was. It was my fault. I have tried to make up for it by giving away its sequel and expansion. Can they name some other company that has done something similar?
  2. But you blamed Miseta for Elemental's failure. No. I didn't. It's still my fault that we didn't have a better backup setup. But that doesn't let a malicious employee off the hook -- and I didn't make it public. She did. I was willing to accept 100% of the public blame.
  3. But you are a political conservative! Well, true, somewhat.  More of a libertarian. I just think the government should leave people alone. Is that really that evil? My views on gay marriage, abortion, and many other issues are identical to theirs. But that's not enough I guess.
  4. But you "sexually harassed" that women. No. I didn't. I simply maintain that people shouldn't be forced to change their speech based on the sex of those around them. I fought that in the courts and won. They won't accept that their POV lost.
  5. But sure, she wrote an apology letter but you forced her.  I didn't force her. She could either have her case decided by a jury or write an apology for her inflammatory UNTRUE allegations.

Mainly, I think they're losers because they are so oblivious to the bubble they live in that they make statements about general reality that make them look like imbeciles. I don't have that luxury. I'm on a lot of forums and I publicly post on many other mediums. If/when I say something out of the mainstream, I get called on it.  But because most of them are cowards (and I mean that literally, they're very brave on their little forum but they absolutely disintegrate on say Twitter even after rallying their friends to attack) they never get out there and discover how extreme and narrow their world view is. 

It turns out, that last 10% where we don't agree is that difference between mainstream thought and lunatic fringe libtard.

on Jul 23, 2014

Quoting garion333,

I'm saying you belittled their experiences by claiming yours (rightfully or not) were worse.



Curiously I read that as 'women should not be singled out as the sole recipients of online abuse, as is evidenced by my [Frogboy's] own experience/s of same'.

99% of online 'argument' is down to word-choice, pure and simple.

Expressing an opinion, PARTICULARLY with someone who may be in an 'extremity' of social normalcy will almost always be mis-construed for point-scoring or troll-worthiness ...

Indeed. When you have 140 characters to express something, how people interpret it has more to do with their biases than what the original writer wrote.

on Jul 23, 2014

garion333

Well, I can't say I'm particularly thrilled with being lumped into a political debate, but I will concede the point that life is in the things you do, however that doesn't preclude us from how we shape and use our language.

I don't know you so I won't assert whether you're a progressive or not.  What I am saying is that progressives tend to fixate on words rather than deeds.  I've been in enough debates on social justice, global warming, etc. to recognize that for progressives, it's often more about making themselves feel good rather than actually doing something.

 


One of the issues with the "judge people only on their actions" idea is that the actions we see from people online are words (for the most part). I am not willing to fully divorce a person from their words. I'm not going to sit here and argue the pen is mightier from than the sword (although it can be) but it would be silly to judge people solely on actions alone. After all, there's business built around manufacturing image.

If I post a picture of our games team that clearly shows that nearly half the team are women, I think it says a lot about the "safe" environment we have.  It also shows that we hire based on merit and not based on some frat house mentality.  Meanwhile, you have guys like Charles Randall who you just know works somewhere where there's probably few if any women there.  Why is that? Well, we know why don't we? That's what his "white knighting" is about.  It's to make himself feel better about the fact that in real life, he's probably part of the problem.  Hey, maybe I'm wrong, I'm willing to give him as much benefit of the doubt as he's willing to give me.

 


Our words do matter, especially when you and I are only able to communicate through them online (atm). I'd say things like MLK's Dream speech and chants of We Will Overcome are as much a part of the power of the Civil Rights movement as much as the actions. It's all tied together and I struggle to look at the world as a place where it's okay to say anything I want so long as I don't "rape her skull" or actually show up and murder you.

I concede that point.  However, there's a big gray area of speech that is open to interpretation.  Like Jafo later says, my statement was taken by him to mean that the anecdotes in that article aren't really that unusual compared to what many people get (like myself) on a regular basis.  You chose to interpret it differently.  Who's fault is that? Someone could have asked for clarification.  And when I did try to clarify, our feminist friend claimed there was no way I could clarify without "looking like an asshole". Really?

 
Anyway, I'm wasn't claiming you said the ladies in the article need to toughen up, I'm saying you belittled their experiences by claiming yours (rightfully or not) were worse. If your point, as you claim, is that internet communication is toxic then perhaps it would've been better to have said that and left out the portion where you dismissed the experiences of two women in the gaming industry because their experiences didn't measure up to the stuff you've seen others receive or you yourself have received.

I'm not belittling their claims.  I am, however, saying that the abuse they experienced may have had little to do with their sex and everything to do with the toxic culture of the Internet. 

As a reminder: According to Xan, people on another forum are posting pictures of my home. When Leigh has people posting her address and home on public forums let me know.

on Jul 23, 2014

->FB

They have a way of turning people into adversaries. I was only kindasorta interested until they called me a "sock puppet". I remember the flames I got on this very forum for ripping on Elemental.  anywhoooo

Your buddy Charles writes regarding why they're considered scum over there ->

Also the mistaken idea that we were the 'bad' element at Qt3, which, given that we were the founders of what is probably one of the most progressive and accepting forums on the internet, is quite the hilarious interpretation.

You claim to be tone deaf. Here's a dude not realizing that posting pictures of someone's house is an instaban offense on any other forum. HINT: YOU'RE NOT PROGRESSIVES. YOU'RE FASCISTS.

on Jul 23, 2014

Posting pictures of your home is really beyond the pale. That said, how many rape threats do you get on a regular basis? The experiences of the two sexes in this industry are not identical, no matter how many times you say they are.

on Jul 23, 2014

Ok Xan, do you have a link for this? I went over there but didn't see any of the usual "Brad Wardell is the devil" type threads at the top.  I think it might be time to take this to a different level Charles and those guys have crossed the line.

on Jul 23, 2014

Frogboy

Ok Xan, do you have a link for this? I went over there but didn't see any of the usual "Brad Wardell is the devil" type threads at the top.  I think it might be time to take this to a different level Charles and those guys have crossed the line.

Here it is, Brad:

http://brokenforum.com/index.php?threads/1reasonwhy.4172/page-163#post-955933

It's in a thread called #1reasonwhy. They actually posted pictures of your home.

on Jul 23, 2014

Maybe someone should call the police? If someone posted a picture of my house on a forum, I'd call the cops.

on Jul 23, 2014

For this BF place being a forum full of losers and nobodies, you guys sure seem to care a lot about what they say. I don't see much difference between this comments thread and the stuff Xan is constantly tattling back to us. Two echo chambers with opposing viewpoints. You're giving too much of yourself to them already, IMO.

on Jul 23, 2014

Gazornenplatz

Posting pictures of your home is really beyond the pale. That said, how many rape threats do you get on a regular basis? The experiences of the two sexes in this industry are not identical, no matter how many times you say they are.

Trolls, children and others are sufficiently adept at refining their abuses to suit their chosen target.

Violence [the threat of] tends to work better towards those 'assumed' to be weaker [than you].

Clearly property/identity exposure works better when targeted at people who have greater social/success standing [than you].

Remember...even the lowest form of life can adapt to its environment....

on Jul 23, 2014

Ok that's too long a thread to look into. I actually have an account there.  I'm not worried about any of their ilk showing up at my house but if they did, they'd regret it.

However, if they want to make their beef with me a "Real world" thing I'm happy to oblige.

on Jul 23, 2014

Gazornenplatz

For this BF place being a forum full of losers and nobodies, you guys sure seem to care a lot about what they say. I don't see much difference between this comments thread and the stuff Xan is constantly tattling back to us. Two echo chambers with opposing viewpoints. You're giving too much of yourself to them already, IMO.

When someone here starts posting addresses or pictures of people's homes let me know. Then we can talk about moral equivalence.  Also, welcome to the forum.

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