The problem is it actually removes terrain strategy/tactics entirely.

There's a chokepoint here that I can use... oops, not anymore.

I'll set my defenses here - nope, you have to defend everything, because they could come through previously impassable terrain to get you.

So now you have to defend everything the same, you can't rely on terrain at all, and it's cheap to do.

End result - everything is passable and there are no particularly strategic points.

Well, in my version of the game Earth Magics are very rare, so it will be a nice power for them. I shudder to think how it will hurt the vanilla game with every new hero pretty much having Earth1. 

Yes.  I agree with the people who say it should go back to the previous cost or the terraform spells should be removed altogether.

My main problem with Brad's statement in defense of it as being 'fun to use' is that who cares if changing terrain is fun to use, unless it's fun to play the whole game, you know, that thing you're releasing in 8 days, with terraforming so cheap?  The game is not about raising and lowering terrain, or is it?

Also, and this is extremely important to understand here, telling people they can just change it is unacceptable.  You need to release a good product out of the box, but you know that already.

If you really believe this change is good for the game as a whole, improving the entire experience, and not just making the use of that spell fun, then go for it.  If not, re-evaluate.  But ask yourself - is it fun when terrain is lowered and now I get attacked from a different angle, and my strategic deployment to the chokepoint is ruined, and it only cost them a pittance in mana to do it?  Isn't that the sort of tactical move that should come at a price?  If nobody's using it, 50's too high.  If everybody's using it now, 5 is too low.

It should be a stressful choice whether to try to punch through the front lines or try and dig through a mountain range.

Me ignoring the problem at hand, this statement in itself is pretty much spot on
I try not to suggest ludicrous things that might only make the game more enjoyable for me for the same reason, I wait until I can poke around in the awesome modding tools to play around with silly hp/armor/damage calculations

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

The thing is, I don't think the mana cost is the problem.  It's how quickly the spell is available.  

It's probably a little of both. Given mana costs for other spells and what they do, it loses sight on spell power vs. mana. the same complaint that I also see from the thread I started (just so people could vent their frustrations or come up with good arguments as to why) that it is a point of immersion being lost and gaming of the system being done. I for one think that 5 mana loses a bit of that immesion, but I feel that 50 mana is too expensive for practical use in the game.

At 5 mana the spell is extremely useful and easily cast and for your purposes in the game is appropriate. I suggested 10 mana because I didn't want the spell to seem weak for it's purpose, but I didn't want to make it impractical to be used. I am fine with 5 mana if the AI can use the spell effectively. For example the isolationist AI should use raise land around his place to make it hilly or muddy to slow enemy troop movement.

I was in a game last night where my starting location was on the western edge of the map with a 25 tile long mountainous region (12-13 tiles north or south either way) on the east.  That's a long way to walk around with your first pioneer or hero to scout out. If I'd had lower terrain, I could have cut myself a path pretty quickly to a nice fertile land once I'd made that first pioneer. 

But sadly I had no Earth magic, so Ctrl + N it was. The point being is if I had early access to lower terrain, I'd have had a nice game there - everything was sweet on the other side.

So it's not early access that's the problem.

The problem, as I see it, is that mountains can't be crossed because there are no flying units and you don't have boats (or swimming units) yet the game insists on using lakes and mountains as internal terrain.  Either you accept that you will continue to have this geography, and make lower terrain and raise terrain as accessible as it it now or you re-write the mapping code to not use mountains and internal bodies of water.

So Brad, I'll just ask again: Is the AI capable of using these spells to terraform the land to its advantage?

Are you seriously asking for a game with no physical barriers, or at most only trivial ones, easily overcome from turn one? That sounds like fun... 

0.991 'fixed' Raise Land so that it can no longer be cast on hills.

To confirm, there are spells that allow you to create mountains and create seas, correct???

No, I think those spells were removed.

I love those kind of starts. You have a great defensive position there and missed a fun and different game. If it was possible for an enemy to tear down the mountains in 1 turn and with very little use of mana I would hate it big time......

the raise and lower land are now earth 3 spells, and looking through the hiergamenon there is NO sink land/raise mountain spells.

harpo