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Published on September 14, 2001 By Frogboy In WinCustomize News
Some people, mostly outside the United States believe that the US response is going to be a single or brief set of air strikes against some designated enemy. That is not the case.

There won't just be a strike. The United States is mobilizing for war as we speak. The government just activated the reserves today. There won't be a single strike, it is going to be a prolonged campaign that will likely take years.

Colin Powell yesterday basically set up the way it's going to work. Countries with terrorist training camps in them will be approached to eliminate the problem themselves. If they do not, the US will 1) Take care of the problem for them and 2) Move to replace the government with one more civilized.

I don't think people outside the US have grasped that the United States is not viewing this as a law enforcement problem, it is viewing this as a war. We're not talking some air strikes, we're talking sending in ground troops to either blockade or invade nation states that harbor terrorists.

And the nations that may have US and international invervention (remember, this isn't the US versus the world, this is the world versus a handful of rogue nations who aid and harbor terrorists) would be conquered and have their governments replaced much as what we done with Japan and Germany.

One foreign policy expert yesterday pointed out that the only way to win for the long term is to change the cultures of this countries. To de-fanatacize them. When the US occupied Japan and Germany, it turned them into peaceful countries right down to the culture.

If they had had the Internet in 1941, I doubt anyone here would guess that years later, Japan would have Japan Disney and Mickey Mouse being their favorite cartoon character. Japan Disney does more business than Disney World in Florida. Cocacola is their favorite soft drink. American pop stars are their favorite musicians.

This is what is being discussed. The only way to win this in the long haul is for us to turn these enemies of the United States into us. Us being Western Europeans/Americans.

And before you think such plans absurd or extreme, I merely point to history where it is exactly how the Allies handled World War II. We turned the Japanese and Germans into us. And the people are happier for it.

And again, before someone points out that one cannot turn these fanatics into us. Read up on Nazism. You can't get much more fanatical than the Hitler youth was.

These countries in the Middle east will have to either abolish terrorism on their own or they will face the international community's determination to forever eliminate not just the terrorists but the culture that breeds terrorism. Don't think it can't be done, it's been done before when it was far more daunting to do so.
Comments (Page 2)
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on Sep 14, 2001
Oh I don't need any history lesson about the Israelite occupation of the Palestinian territories. I am extremely familiar with it. It is not though shit, they are illegally occupying a territory as recognized by the United Nations. Are you saying the United Nations are wrong?
on Sep 14, 2001
Here is a site about about the Arab-Israeli conflict from a Jewish, humanitarian point of view- http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/
Rabbi Katz point of view is not completely unbiased, but please read his dedication at the bottom.
Please note that Arafat and the PLO were thrown out of Jordan and Lebanon more recently than Eretiz Yisroel.
on Sep 14, 2001
We have not turned the Japanese into us, Thank God!. They've assimilated a great deal of our best ideas, but they have also preserved and developed a great deal we could learn more from. We don't have to compel anyone else to drink Coke (caffine does that for us, until they move up to Jolt and Caffinated Mints). If a culture doesn't want to learn to speak English, fine, we'll gladly borrow five hundred or so of their best words and add them to ours. What the civilized world has to compel is simply a set of rules not too different from our own Bill of Rights or the UN universal declaration.
on Sep 14, 2001
Well said Artifakt. What I mean by turning them into "us" isn't that they're clones of Americans. But that they have embraced the Western way of living and they are much better off for it.

Japan should be the model for the rest of the world in my opinion. Japan is a good decent nation today. Pacificistic. Industrious. Honest. Honorable. A real contributor to the world. Wealthy. Creative.

The Japan of 1935 is vastly different than the Japan of 1955.
on Sep 14, 2001
That certainly seems like a solid plan to me...

Just keep Jerry Falwell/Pat Robertson out of it.
on Sep 14, 2001
I don't want to be a devil's advocate, but the Allies in WWI promised the Arabs land from the Ottoman Empire if they helped. So they did. They were screwed out of the deal. Jews were first accepted into Arab nations (by Arabs). The Allies still controlled the territories (hence Arab hatred for us) and Arabs wanted the holy land back which they fought for in the Crusades. The British didn't want Israel to be an independent nation. (They had control and lost it due to relentless attacks from Arabs and Jews. Plus they were blood-white from WWII). My thoughts are..

Destroy the terrorist camps quickly. Being Islam I know such actions are forbidden (and are sinful)and some crack-head invented fundamentalism. This will also be a good thing to the religion. Less terrorism means less death and that is better. Thou shall not kill is the same in the Torah, Bible, and Koran. Also be weary of Saddam and China. As I recall he got fiber-optic communication from China. So, the Chinese and Iraqis have some ties.
on Sep 14, 2001
It was illegal to start a war with israel, i dont hear you crying about that paxx. They started the confrontation with israel and lost land because of it. Again i say tough sh*t. If you read the history you know so well then you would know that land was part of a treaty agreement between egypt and israel. But i dont need to tell you that cuz you know dont need a history lesson.
on Sep 14, 2001
Let me clarify...[such acts are forbidden] is
Terrorism
on Sep 14, 2001
Well, if the terrorists were trying to get our attention they certainly succeeded. Except this time they've bitten off more than they can chew or swallow. Bush has promised a full military intervention...in other words WAR. There is no place for terrorists to hide anymore, there are no holes deep enough to cover their cowardly asses. We have warned them time and again....the time is now passed for diplomacy and they had better bend over, stick their heads in the sand, and kiss their sorry asses goodbye. It may take some time to get all of them, but believe me WE WILL GET THEM.
on Sep 15, 2001
A scarred, war torn third world, will fight no matter how many bombs are dropped. Life is short under these conditions and regimes, and our enriched long lives offer a resentful divide between the haves and the have-nots.

Democratic governments are only elected for short periods of time and are quick to act. Too quick in some cases.

Will we see a cool reasoned response from world leaders, or an impromptu blind act of fury , where hopes of life are deminished.

A billion people rattled by 15 terrorists. The percentages call for reason and perspective, not more destruction. The US president has great power over so many countries, both culturally and economically and yet so few people have a say in a leader who effectively holds the reins on so many. Yes God bless America, and all those who stand in their way. Life as we know it will change for us all, and not just in the US.
on Sep 15, 2001
Noneofurbusiness: As I understand it, China are fully in support of the international community's condemnation of this attrocity.

Bit of a surprise, but a welcome one.
on Sep 15, 2001
I have to admit that I find all this extremely worrying. The idea of forceably destroying a culture other than ours because we believe that it breeds fanaticism and acts of terrorism reminds me a little too much of Hitler's intended plan for the world. Taking away an entire culture and replacing it with our Western beliefs is hardly likely to make everything peachy again. Think of it this way; there are sects of terrorists in the US who can be thought to be a product of Western culture themselves. Sometimes I think that Americans believe they are the example that the rest of the world should follow.

I should point out that I was just as horrified by the events on the 11th as the majority of the world. However, I'm almost as disturbed by some of the 'solutions' which are being put forward.
on Sep 15, 2001
I'd make several warnings here:

First, we need to be very careful in replacing "non-compliant" gevernments with new ones which better suit our tastes. We've done that before, only to have it backfire on us (Iran/Iraq, various nations in Central America).

And don't think for one minute that the Japanese situation is peachy and resolved. Sure, their culture has adapted and absorbed many of the Western pastimes and such, but their ideals are still very foriegn to Western thinking. And *many* Japanese are far from forgiving for the atrocities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They're a smart people with *long* memories, and they have the benefit of patience.

And has anyone actually thought about the consequences of what our brilliant, brave, and tear-soaked president (gotta admire a man who can tear up on queue...) has proposed? Fight fire with fire? Sure, so the bombing of targets in Afganistan and the Middle East, and the resultant slaughter of thousand--or even hundreds of thousands--of innocent civilians (even if you don't agree with their culture and beliefs, they're still innocent until *they* pull something like Tuesday), is morally justified now? Isn't that just as bad as what they did? Sure, we'll have the argument "They hit me first," but we don't let our kids get away with that excuse; why should we let our government?

Don't get me wrong. I was off work Tuesday, sitting at home watching TV and saw the events unfold within minutes of them happening. And I was horrified. And the truth is, I don't have the answers. But I think war, the kind of war that's being proposed, is a rash and foolhardy emotional response to the horror, not one with much thought or logic behind it. We do these things, we'll be no better than they, and our lives, liberties and moralities will quickly deteriorate in the process.
on Sep 15, 2001
Amen.
on Sep 15, 2001
I wonder if the US goverment regret having armed and trained these terrorist to fight "The Great Evil Empire"? They did not learn all that by themselfs. They were trained by the CIA to fight the USSR. Well, now USSR is long gone and the US has become these terrorists new "Great Evil Empire"...

Once it was a Just fight for liberty and freedom. Now its terrorism. Its all a matter of perspective.

This will get REAL ugly...
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