Brad Wardell's site for talking about the customization of Windows.
Published on December 13, 2008 By Frogboy In Elemental Dev Journals

Our story so far...

In Elemental there is no such thing as a knight or a wizard or an archer.  Instead, players design their own units.  If you wanted to call a unit a knight, you might take a man, equip him with some armor, give him a helmet, arm him with a sword, and pair him up with a horse.

The armor, helmets, swords, etc. are things you manufacture and thus have some control over how they look. Normally, customizing an individual unit falls only in the realm of role playing games. And what they tend to do is called texture merging. That is, they simply blend various textures together.

In Elemental, what we're doing is actually giving each item its own heft with its own physics.  The trick is to find a way to do this that still lets it run on lower end hardware so it has to be done smartly. At the same time, you want the guy with that new Core i7 with the latest nVidia or ATI card to look at it and go DAMN that's cool.

The example we have going is a knight that we've equipped with armor, a sword, a helmet, along with a horse with its own armor.  When they move, each item moves as if it were real. That is, the armor on the horse when the horse is running moves like you would expect.  The knight riding the horse moves on the horse as you'd expect and even the sword dangling from the side moves as you would expect. 

Normally, to get such an effect, you would have to model/bone/rig/animate the entire unit together.  The breakthru here is that these elements are all independent and created by the players and they just work together.  I'll try to get a little video or something to show this in action next time.

This will really make the tactical battles really compelling. Since so much of the game revolves around the premise of massive unit differentia, you will see some really breathtaking battles I think.


Comments (Page 5)
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on Dec 20, 2008

I gotta admit I have the same concerns as the other posters.  If you can pull this off, WOW.  If you can't, this should be a chopped feature.  It's not going to be something this game would be remembered for in 10 years.

 

 

on Dec 21, 2008

Hahaha, very good joke, but no sensible TBS would have this level of detail.

 

Oh, wait whats that logo there...

 

Oh... so elemental is a Stardock game...

 

Well, I'm looking forwward to it!

on Dec 26, 2008

Torgamous

Quoting Martimus, reply 8This is pretty much how GC2 works, so I would expect Elemental to work the same way.  It would be nice to be able to upgrade a unit without it stripping everything and starting over again though.  (like replacing just the sword, or just the armor; which should be easier since you can't mount a sword anywhere like you can mount a part anywhere in GC2.)
Not quite the same, though. In GCII you still had to go through and manually change all the designs. What he's suggesting is a button that can automatically upgrade all your units' steel swords to adamantium. If upgrading works like it does in GalCiv, and given the number of different unit types Elemental will allow for, there's a good chance I'd die of starvation halfway through upgrading all my units from steel to adamantium armor.

Agreed.  Upgrading units in GalCiv2 was always something I disliked as well.  But in GalCiv2, templates weren't included until when, Dark Avatar?  By then, it was more of an add-in feature.  I can't help but think that Elemental will rely heavily on templates and use them in a more integrated, usable fashion.

Along those lines, I also hope upgrading generally is "worth it" more.  Many of the tech advances were so minor that it wasn't worth the level of micromangement to gain a better unit, and the upgrade costs were so expensive, as well.

Back on topic, I'll be really interested in seeing how Havok is used not only for units, but buildings, spells, terrain, weather, etc.

on Jun 25, 2009

Tamren
I once had a discussion on winged humanoids. In DnD and other places humans with wings are a common feature. But in real life you would need a wingspan of over 40 feet, and that is just if you want to glide. Powered flight is probably impossible because we don't have room for any more muscles and wings can't be connected to any of the existing muscles.

Of course of magic is involved all bets are off.

Can't wait till beta


The easest solution to that, is just make the people light, Who says this fantacy world has Right handed DNA as it's basic structure, who says that all the species need to be baced one template,  if you have stone golums walking around they're densities are not going to be the same as humans. so Pegisi and dragons are made from lighter stuff.  doesn't seam to hard to me to solve. ...

on Jun 25, 2009

Nice necropost.

 

People are about as light as people can be.  It takes very little variation in size to go from healthy adult to crippled by 35.  Even just being seven feet tall leads to severe joint problems well before old age, the body isn't built to take that much stress.  If the bones were much lighter without being made of something significantly stronger, you'd break like glass.  If your muscles were less dense, you'd have trouble moving.  The better idea for winged humans and such is to just fuck it and say shit happens.  Rationalizing it only gets you in trouble with the nit pickers, it really isn't plausible.

on Jun 25, 2009

psychoak
Nice necropost.

 

People are about as light as people can be.  It takes very little variation in size to go from healthy adult to crippled by 35.  Even just being seven feet tall leads to severe joint problems well before old age, the body isn't built to take that much stress.  If the bones were much lighter without being made of something significantly stronger, you'd break like glass.  If your muscles were less dense, you'd have trouble moving.  The better idea for winged humans and such is to just fuck it and say shit happens.  Rationalizing it only gets you in trouble with the nit pickers, it really isn't plausible.

I agree. It's magic fantasy anyways so if people demand an explanation they can always just blame magic. This is one area I'm happy to say "magic did it," or just ignore the existence of the problem to begin with. Hell, they could even say that the physical laws of the world are different than our own in such away that allows human/pegasus/dragon flight.

on Jun 26, 2009

whee, thread necromancy.

All these comparisons to GC2 don't really fit that well. The whole thing in GC2 was ship component space. You have X space to fit stuff. Laser II to Laser V changed the size, so in some cases it let you fit an extra one (or something else).

Clearly it can't work that way in Elemental, since you aren't going to be able to wield 3 Claymores at the same time no matter what you do to the size of them. Since you can only have a certain number of weapons anyway, it should be easy to automatically upgrade designs from +4 Swords to +5 Swords.

on Jun 26, 2009

Clearly it can't work that way in Elemental, since you aren't going to be able to wield 3 Claymores at the same time no matter what you do to the size of them.

There has to be a spell that lets your human foot soldiers grow an extra arm! Imagine, sword and 2 shields, 2 swords and shield, 3 swords, 3 shields

on Jun 26, 2009

Annatar11
...There has to be a spell that lets your human foot soldiers grow an extra arm! Imagine, sword and 2 shields, 2 swords and shield, 3 swords, 3 shields

A third arm sounds rather Fallen to me, not something a Kingdom faction would want to do, and also like something that could work well as an extension of MoM's Chaos Channels spell. Which makes me wonder if the Elemental base game will include anything like that swell old spell--maybe a Fallen channeler with strong Life magic could build a magical version of the Inhumans' Terrigen Mist.

on Jun 26, 2009

I actually was just joking. But it would be interesting if there were Mutate-type spells.

on Jun 26, 2009

Would not go terribly well with the new resource system, but mutate potions could be used to provide the same effect, and yet be treated as a resource...

on Jun 26, 2009

Scoutdog
Would not go terribly well with the new resource system, but mutate potions could be used to provide the same effect, and yet be treated as a resource...

If you're talking about an analog to MoM's Chaos Channels, I don't see a problem here. Producing a unit is one thing, and casting an enchantment on it after it is produced is another.

As for enchantments that are embedded in unit production (the intersection in the Venn diagram view), if anything deserves a 'pure camp 2' treatment, it's mana-only enchantments by the channeler: spend mana up front and possibly also incur an ongoing mana cost. I'd go for production-enchantment special effects like potions if they were linked to specific spell material components and a more-or-less camp 1 system, but I could just as happily do without that level of functional detail.

on Jul 09, 2009

GW Swicord

Quoting Scoutdog,
reply 21
Would not go terribly well with the new resource system, but mutate potions could be used to provide the same effect, and yet be treated as a resource...


If you're talking about an analog to MoM's Chaos Channels, I don't see a problem here. Producing a unit is one thing, and casting an enchantment on it after it is produced is another.

I would really like to know what resource camp they finally did decide on...

@Swicord: I can't remember, but did the Chaos Channels spell acutally change the graphics of the target unit in MoM? I need a refresher on that game... maybe i'll go do that instead of sleeping tonight lol

on Jul 10, 2009

... @Swicord: I can't remember, but did the Chaos Channels spell acutally change the graphics of the target unit ...

I think so, but it's been ages since I last played and a Google image search for "chaos channels" doesn't yield any MoM graphics (although it does show several avatars from Stardock forums).

Surely someone around here has been playing MoM recently again. landisaurus made a bunch of MoM avatars; maybe he knows.

on Jul 10, 2009

Chaos channels had the 'swirling chaos energy' animation that resulted when the spell was cast, and from there if you actually opened the units status they gained an ability that was basically a shadow of the unit with whatever special feature.  It however, was nothing spceial since the icon for the chaos channels was just recolors from other ability icons (firebreathing > chaos channels fire breathing, ect.)  It did not "change" any graphics.  (for example, other than on the status screen, you could not actually see units units that gained fire breathing using it in combat, even though the results of combat were very apparent)

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