Brad Wardell's site for talking about the customization of Windows.
Published on December 13, 2008 By Frogboy In Elemental Dev Journals

Our story so far...

In Elemental there is no such thing as a knight or a wizard or an archer.  Instead, players design their own units.  If you wanted to call a unit a knight, you might take a man, equip him with some armor, give him a helmet, arm him with a sword, and pair him up with a horse.

The armor, helmets, swords, etc. are things you manufacture and thus have some control over how they look. Normally, customizing an individual unit falls only in the realm of role playing games. And what they tend to do is called texture merging. That is, they simply blend various textures together.

In Elemental, what we're doing is actually giving each item its own heft with its own physics.  The trick is to find a way to do this that still lets it run on lower end hardware so it has to be done smartly. At the same time, you want the guy with that new Core i7 with the latest nVidia or ATI card to look at it and go DAMN that's cool.

The example we have going is a knight that we've equipped with armor, a sword, a helmet, along with a horse with its own armor.  When they move, each item moves as if it were real. That is, the armor on the horse when the horse is running moves like you would expect.  The knight riding the horse moves on the horse as you'd expect and even the sword dangling from the side moves as you would expect. 

Normally, to get such an effect, you would have to model/bone/rig/animate the entire unit together.  The breakthru here is that these elements are all independent and created by the players and they just work together.  I'll try to get a little video or something to show this in action next time.

This will really make the tactical battles really compelling. Since so much of the game revolves around the premise of massive unit differentia, you will see some really breathtaking battles I think.


Comments (Page 4)
6 PagesFirst 2 3 4 5 6 
on Dec 15, 2008

Lord Reliant
Does this mean that SD will be using Nvidia's PhysX engine?  If so, I'm glad I bought one!

I get the feeling that Stardock will be using a homemade physics engine although it could potentially support the two big name physics engines (Havok & PhysX) but that’s purely a guess. I'm still dreaming of a game that semi-accurately (excluding some of the fun killing rules) simulates Mass, Energy, and Gravity the big three of physics. 

on Dec 15, 2008

We're using Havok for physics.

on Dec 15, 2008

its nice that Elemental will have a good physics engine. It's really a moot point whether its eye candy or not. Logically for a game to sell well it must appeal to all facets of gamers wants. Physics are the new age 3d acceleration, plus it appeals to the modding community etc. Clipping although is not something anyone would desire...

I would be interested to see the video of it in action and would like to know how modding revolves around this aspect.

on Dec 15, 2008

Frogboy
We're using Havok for physics.

You guys are nuts.  And I mean that in the absolute best way possible.

on Dec 16, 2008

pigeonpigeon
I don't really understand what that has to do with my statement, really. Anybody who doesn't like tactical combat or doesn't want to deal with it won't feel that they are missing anything by pressing auto-resolve. My point is that there is going to be tactical combat in the game. And if the combat is going to be half-assed, then the people who like tactical combat will be disappointed, while the people who don't like tactical combat or don't want to deal with it in this type of game won't care less. On the other hand if it's done well, then the people who like tactical combat will be happy, and the others still couldn't care less. Hoping for a feature to be half-assed just so you don't feel like you're missing out on something if you choose not to use it is pretty cynical and silly.
/OT
Bah, sorry. I completely missread the last thing you said at the very bottom. I have no idea what I was thinking.
Cauldyth
You guys are nuts.  And I mean that in the absolute best way possible.
The squirrel kind of nuts.

on Dec 16, 2008

This is going to be a revolution in turnbased gaming! If Civlization V doesn't get released to close near your launch you should be golden.

I really like the idea of "creating" you own units with a custom look. Going to feel so much more personal when they'll do battle! Aplha Centauri also did this a bit, but I think the technology wasn't avanced enough yet to pull it off back then. Of course GalCiv II also implemented the system, but for spaceships it I think its a bit easier to do and make it look good, then for people. Must say I felt far more offended though when people destroyed one of my designs then when they blew up a random "stock" design. Made taking revenge so much sweeter. Funny how designing your own units affects gameplay!

on Dec 16, 2008

So fantasy warfare, with significant scale differences between troops, plus a good physics engine. So, a dragon breathing flame on an army of spearmen, for instance, might look like...?

A question that might best be answered with a video.

on Dec 16, 2008

Yes, please post some video soon!  I'm all in for breathtaking battles, too!

lamperti
One of the issues I have with games where you design units (Usually space ships,) by putting together things you have researched and/or built is that you find yourself needing to create a new design everytime there is an incremental change in technology.  I.e. I have just researched shields that are +5 instead of my shields that are +4, so I need to design a new ship type, (Or multiple ship types,) with the new technology.  This can lead to micromanagement, a difficulity in unit uniqueness and a naming problem.  This is something that could be an issue here.  Of course it could be managed well, but these are potential difficulties I think might come up.

The shipyard in GalCiv2 can become very cluttered for this very reason.  Hopefully the devs will think of something creative to help streamline upgrading units better in Elemental.

on Dec 16, 2008

Nights Edge
So fantasy warfare, with significant scale differences between troops, plus a good physics engine. So, a dragon breathing flame on an army of spearmen, for instance, might look like...?

A question that might best be answered with a video.

Yeah Frogboy, convince the doubters like me with a shiny video of such a happening.

 

NelsMonsterX


The shipyard in GalCiv2 can become very cluttered for this very reason.  Hopefully the devs will think of something creative to help streamline upgrading units better in Elemental.

Totally agree. It wasn't that bad in GalCivII, since I usually didn't had that many designs anyway (there wasn't that much different options in the end). But in Alpha Centauri it was horrible. I had dozens over dozens of different designs that were cluttering up its (bad) interface and I groaned each time I had researched a new item, since it meant changing a dozen plans. In the end I didn't really bother upgrading my designs by hand, since often it didn't really matter that much. Same in GCII, Laser II or Laser V was pretty meaningless and I hope we don't get such a system in Elemental. I'd rather have fever but more diverse options than gradual increases that don't change much.

on Dec 16, 2008

Frogboy
We're using Havok for physics.

Good to know.  Sounds like this will use the processor to handle the physics rendering, then, based on what I've read.  It would be cool if the video cards could help to off-load some of this processing- can they?

Looks like the Havok site will need to include Stardock on their list of customers now.

I also didn't realize Intel bought Havok.  Does that mean anything for AMD customers?

on Dec 16, 2008

Havok only uses the CPU for physics calculations and probably will continue with that trend for the foreseeable future. However Intel's acquisition of Havok should translate to better performance since it will obviously be optimized for Intel CPUs opposed to AMD. If I remember correctly Havok tested there physics engine predominately on Intel chips anyway so unless Havok managed to come up with some new tricks that favor Intel CPUs I doubt any significant differences could really be noticed using an AMD chip. Now if you throw Larrabee into the mix things in the CPU/GPU/Physics battle become a bit more muddled and interesting at the same time. I'm very enthusiastic to see how Intel's GPU stands up head to head with Nvidia and AMD GPUs. 

on Dec 16, 2008

Vandenburg
Totally agree. It wasn't that bad in GalCivII, since I usually didn't had that many designs anyway (there wasn't that much different options in the end). But in Alpha Centauri it was horrible. I had dozens over dozens of different designs that were cluttering up its (bad) interface and I groaned each time I had researched a new item, since it meant changing a dozen plans. In the end I didn't really bother upgrading my designs by hand, since often it didn't really matter that much. Same in GCII, Laser II or Laser V was pretty meaningless and I hope we don't get such a system in Elemental. I'd rather have fever but more diverse options than gradual increases that don't change much.
I want to 'third' that notion, for both GalCiv2 and SMAC/X. The highlighted section is the reason alone that I usually run Slow or Very Slow research speed. I like to take an extreme amount of time while playing my turn-based games, and this goes doubly for spending time in the shipyard.

I know that a lot of people may not agree with me on this, but I hope that it won't be as much of a hassle to optimize your choice of troops in Elemental. One big step towards this, I think, would be to get rid of 'size' - it wouldn't make much sense in this context, regardless. After all, no matter how many maces you stick to a knight, he'll only be able to use one at a time.

Overall, I think we'll get a more straight-lined upgrade system in Elemental, for our various base troops. But yeah, I couldn't possibly agree more with you.

on Dec 16, 2008

Rhishisikk
pigeonpigeon:  Okay, so how about this: we keep a set of templates.  For example, I have both a holy paladin and a knight template.  I want my paladins to keep their holy sword instead of getting the new flaming swords, but I want my knights to make use of the new technology.  I select UPGRADE on the knight template, move in the flaming sword, and save the template.   New knights will be built with flaming swords.  My idle production goes into making flaming swords, which are caravaned out to the units, and bring back the old weapons.  (So yes, my garrisons will upgrade first, being closest).  When a unit is in town, I can select UPGRADE TO TEMPLATE: [template name] (Or maybe UPGRADE lists the templates that match the unit's current configuration) and have it pop up with X weeks, and stick the unit into the production queue. 

This also melds into the idea of supply caravans, weapon/armor wear and tear, and other automatically supplied field needs.

 

This is pretty much how GC2 works, so I would expect Elemental to work the same way.  It would be nice to be able to upgrade a unit without it stripping everything and starting over again though.  (like replacing just the sword, or just the armor; which should be easier since you can't mount a sword anywhere like you can mount a part anywhere in GC2.)

on Dec 16, 2008

Martimus
This is pretty much how GC2 works, so I would expect Elemental to work the same way.  It would be nice to be able to upgrade a unit without it stripping everything and starting over again though.  (like replacing just the sword, or just the armor; which should be easier since you can't mount a sword anywhere like you can mount a part anywhere in GC2.)
Not quite the same, though. In GCII you still had to go through and manually change all the designs. What he's suggesting is a button that can automatically upgrade all your units' steel swords to adamantium. If upgrading works like it does in GalCiv, and given the number of different unit types Elemental will allow for, there's a good chance I'd die of starvation halfway through upgrading all my units from steel to adamantium armor.

on Dec 17, 2008

I think unit design should run on templates. That way if you change a template then your industrial base will automatically work its hardest to update all units to the new standard.

You could even get more technical and specify how many units to upgrade per a certain amount of time. This would help if you were giving out equipment that relied on experimental, expensive or just rare materials.

6 PagesFirst 2 3 4 5 6