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Published on October 7, 2008 By Frogboy In Politics

I figured that Obama narrowly won the first debate.  The VP debate was largely a draw. But the second Presidential debate I have to say McCain won decisively.  Still not going to vote for him, but McCain answered questions, was specific, and seemed to know what he was doing.  Obama came across as someone who practiced debating but seemed like an empty suit.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Oct 08, 2008

It was "Weekend at Bernie's" -

Thanks for the correction. I can't access IMDB.com from here so was not able to verify, although I could have used wiki.

I in no way have my head shoved up a particular party's ass.

Hmmm, ok.

Wish I could've seen the first hour, but I was watching a new episode of Dirty Jobs, a show I believe to be much more entertaining than a debate.

Believe me you didn't miss much. Besides, had I realized there was a new episode of Dirty Jobs, I probably would have watched it too. Hmm, maybe he can be a Senator in one of his episodes, judging by the economy today, that seems like one hell of a dirty job, or is it the people who are dirty and not the job itself?

on Oct 08, 2008

The only thing these debates have shown me is that both of these candidates absolutly suck.

The fact that our choice is no longer "who is best qualified" but "who is going to screw things up slightly less" is pathetic and reflects on our two-party system.

I've made my mind up - I'm not voting for either of these idiots.

on Oct 08, 2008

The fact that our choice is no longer "who is best qualified" but "who is going to screw things up slightly less" is pathetic and reflects on our two-party system

I don't agree with McCain on lots of things.  The whole buying mortgages issue kills me.

The only thing about Obama is, he can do a whole lot of damage in four years.  And I think it will take decades to recover from what he intends to do to this country.

Charles, its all good.  That just struck me like a slap in the face for some reason today.

 

on Oct 08, 2008

The fact that our choice is no longer "who is best qualified" but "who is going to screw things up slightly less" is pathetic and reflects on our two-party system

I don't agree with McCain on lots of things.  The whole buying mortgages issue kills me.

The only thing about Obama is, he can do a whole lot of damage in four years.  And I think it will take decades to recover from what he intends to do to this country.

Charles, its all good.  That just struck me like a slap in the face for some reason today.

 

 

HAHAHAHA. We're better off after Bush's eight years then? And we'd be better off with someone who runs strikingly similar campaign to King George? Someone who agrees with Bush over Ninety percent of the time, and I suspect the percentage  he disagres only stems from when he used to a maverick between his 2000 campaign and september 2001.

 

Obama definately isnt great, but what horrible things would he do? Encourage Complete energy independance in ten years?  Cut away at the Regean Era Republican debt? Handle Foreign matters in a respectful way as opposed to the Spoiled Brat ethics of Conneticut raised George Bush and String Pulling John McCain?

on Oct 08, 2008

HAHAHAHA. We're better off after Bush's eight years then?

really so it's been bad for 8 years?  Hmmmmm I didn't hear much complaining before 2006.  In fact unemployment was low, businesses were doing great, real estate was thru the roof.  We had businesses making so much money they didn't know what to do with it.  Houses were selling up a storm in Maine (I worked in Real Estate).  They couldn't keep houses on the market for more than a week in some cases. 

You might want to go back about just two years and that would be when Congress rearranged itself into a Democratic one and it went all downhill from there. 

It's not Bush.  It's the Democrats.  They are the ones passing all the laws thru Congress.  They're the ones screwing with the economy.  While Bush was running a war the Dems were playing in the House and having a ball with our money giving it away like it's growing on trees. 

 

on Oct 08, 2008

Charles, its all good. That just struck me like a slap in the face for some reason today.

No, you were within your right. Sometimes I don't always see what I write till after I write it.

HAHAHAHA. We're better off after Bush's eight years then? And we'd be better off with someone who runs strikingly similar campaign to King George? Someone who agrees with Bush over Ninety percent of the time, and I suspect the percentage he disagres only stems from when he used to a maverick between his 2000 campaign and september 2001.

Yea, and I guess the simple fact that Congress has been in the Democrats control for the last 2 years has nothing to do with what's going on either right? Oh, but only the President of the US has all the power, right? This kind of ignorant babbling is what is making Obama win. And you know what? I hope he wins, not with my help, but I hope he wins because the ignorance of the average person in this country deserve a punishment only Obama can provide.

Obama definately isnt great, but what horrible things would he do? Encourage Complete energy independance in ten years? Cut away at the Regean Era Republican debt? Handle Foreign matters in a respectful way as opposed to the Spoiled Brat ethics of Conneticut raised George Bush and String Pulling John McCain?

Yea, let's elect a man whos mentor hate sthe US, who worked with a terrorist, who was part of a group called ACORN known for their fraud and agressive tactics, oh, and let's not forget how he wants to sit down with people like the President of Iran with no pre-conditions. He also wants to punish people for not having insurance (rich or poor) with fines, he wants to only 5% of working people to pay for taxes while everyone else either gets to pay a lot less, pay nothing or even get extra money back . I guess that is definitely fair.

I find it funny you blame Bush for what is going on when it's ben proven time and again the Democrats started this whole BS. Not that you will admit it, all you will probably say is the Republican had control of the House at the time. People like you deserve Obama.

on Oct 08, 2008

Obama definately isnt great, but what horrible things would he do? Encourage Complete energy independance in ten years?

What is scary about Obama (to me) is his socialistic tendencies.  As we saw with Hoover, a few short years of such thinking and action, can take decades to undo.

I think there is a place for government in our lives, but I don't believe it should be the center of it.  I certainly don't think we need to raise taxes on ANYONE until we get rid of all the excess spending.  But Obama has voted for every single tax increase to ever cross his path.

When someone starts messing with MY personal budget to finance socialism, it ticks me off.

 

on Oct 08, 2008


Yea, and I guess the simple fact that Congress has been in the Democrats control for the last 2 years has nothing to do with what's going on either right? Oh, but only the President of the US has all the power, right? This kind of ignorant babbling is what is making Obama win. And you know what? I hope he wins, not with my help, but I hope he wins because the ignorance of the average person in this country deserve a punishment only Obama can provide.

So what Congress has all the power? There is this little thing called Balance of Powers. "The Do Nothing" Congress, as it has often been called, has been restricted because Anything that happens to be passed(Bailout aside, whom neither side among citizens generally agreed with) could be vetoed by the president. To overturn that veto, they would need three/fourths majority. Now maybe if incredible partisanship didn't exist, the democrats slim majority wouldn't matter.

 

Yea, let's elect a man whos mentor hate sthe US, who worked with a terrorist, who was part of a group called ACORN known for their fraud and agressive tactics, oh, and let's not forget how he wants to sit down with people like the President of Iran with no pre-conditions. He also wants to punish people for not having insurance (rich or poor) with fines, he wants to only 5% of working people to pay for taxes while everyone else either gets to pay a lot less, pay nothing or even get extra money back . I guess that is definitely fair.

 

HAHAHAHA I am the ignorant one? By Obama's mentor I assume you mean Rev. Wright, even though their relationship was entirely sensationalized by the evil left wing media. Rage over the semantics used to criticize america, or is dissent now unamerican? If so you may as well be calling George Washington Un-American. What about McCain's Hagey? And the 72 year old(12,000 pages of medical records since 2000, when he last had to hand in his medical records[compared to Obama's one page for 20 years) running mate Palin's reverand curing her of witches(the same man who walked into a town in africa I believe  which was on hard times and convinced the towns people and whipped them into a frenzied mob chasing the a young woman the man claimed was a witch). Oh the rehabilitated domestic terrorist guy Obama barely knew. They served on some board set up by Republicans. The same ones John McCain endorse right? McCain is in the clear right? In the Clear about the fundraiser he attended with an extremist pro-life group. That was championing a woman who was recently arrested for shooting a doctor for preforming legal abortions, and also connected with fire bombing abortion clinics. A woman whom upon conviction the Arizona judge called a demostic terrorist. Let's forget that though, but there is still his connections to the Iran Contra affair. Like the funding he gave to the human right's violating drug smugling Contras. And his connection to Oliver North. Now Ayers was never convicted of a crime, and never killed anyone. North by contrast was convicted, but his testimonial gave him immunity. Under the direction of North, The US sold 48 mill. in missles, and other weapons to Iran, classified as an international sponser of terror. North then illegaly used some of his money to help fund the terrorist contras. McCain's view? His website boasts his endorsement. McCain also supported North's 1994 bid for Virginia senate. If you want I can go on further about others connections to the Iran-Contra affair, or other connections to terrorism.

I'll finish with to me personally, I don't believe in Guilt By Association. I choose instead to vote on policies. I do not agree with the idea of privitization. It is my opinion it leads to things the housing collapse we are currently going through, which began in '99 when Bill Clinton signed into law a deregulation bill introduced by the republican congress. I believe limited regulation is helpful, because the market does not regulate it self. I beleve regulation stopped children in ware houses, and gave us the 40 hour work. I believe the FDR style of politics helps us and lead us to prosperity. I believe Reagan style of politics has lead us further into debt with every republican to have contiued his policies. I challenge you to look that up for yourself to. That is my opinion, If yours is different wonderful, but unless it's at the very least Libertarianism(whom atleast belive in freedom unlike republicans) I most likely won't respect your opinion. What was next oh when you said screw diplomacy, I agree we shouldn't do that at all, even though thats what Bush is now doing, and what our commanders on the ground recomend we do, screw those guys to! Grr...I hate  diplomacy soo much...we just need to bomb bomb bomb every one, right? thats the way it comes off to me atleast. Why can't you guys understand policy? Obama would only punish a corporate entity like Walmart for not giving healthcare options to its employees. I wouldn't have to pay a dime, a rich person wouldn't have to pay a dime if we had no healthcare. and a small buisness would receive tax credits for healthcare. Is it really that hard to understand? You said I was Ignorant? atleast I know what what both McCain and Obama propose instead of running around spewing out what i heard out of main stream media. AS far as taxes go look at how 90% of people in the US installed governments of Central and South America live.  That's the tax policy you want.  Where the rich stay rich, and the middle fall into the lower class. Lower class can't afford to raise themselves out of poverty. It's about giving the lower class a fair opportunity to raise themselves out of poverty. To contribute to society to make an overall stronger, more resilient, richer country for everyone rich included.  The Rich already pay a disporportionatly low percentage of taxes.

 

I find it funny you blame Bush for what is going on when it's ben proven time and again the Democrats started this whole BS. Not that you will admit it, all you will probably say is the Republican had control of the House at the time. People like you deserve Obama.

 

I don't only blame Bush. I blame his admistration. I blame all Republicans since Nixon, more specifically the Regan Era Politicians. There has been a major democrat party spilt. Now you have FDR democrats and Reagan democrats. As I said above. I do blame Bill Clinton and the Republican congress for getting us into the mess in '99. Funny to see you speaking out against the Republican mantra of deregulation though. For the Record both sides are corrupt and don't often act how their constituancys woud like, in other words the both suck. My personally beliefs as what could be classified as a progressive leans me toward voting for democrats, but like I said they both suck. I believe over the past eight years the Republican's have been insanely and almost completely corrupt, while only most democrats are corrupt. So yes in that sense I do blame Republicans much more than democrats. Again I blame both sides of the two party dictatorship for most of our problems. I blame the republicans more so for doing much more to craft our consumer economy that helped to dum what percentage of the population did vote.  I won't be as shallow as you and say something like, No, It's people like you the deserve what we have now.

on Oct 08, 2008


Obama definately isnt great, but what horrible things would he do? Encourage Complete energy independance in ten years?
What is scary about Obama (to me) is his socialistic tendencies.  As we saw with Hoover, a few short years of such thinking and action, can take decades to undo.

I think there is a place for government in our lives, but I don't believe it should be the center of it.  I certainly don't think we need to raise taxes on ANYONE until we get rid of all the excess spending.  But Obama has voted for every single tax increase to ever cross his path.

When someone starts messing with MY personal budget to finance socialism, it ticks me off.

 

 

Calling him Socialist is no different then calling Bush and McCain Facist.  Obama is more like FDR(notice like, i am not calling him FDR). Lets not forget Hoover was Republican. McCain's weird call to do exactly what the bailout was supposed to do, in buying bad mortgages, nevermind how would one classify those mortgages as bad, assuming he's talking about cutting out the middle man in the companies, and how even the often republican Chamber of Commerce says McCains economy ideas are bad.  The tax thing is an enormous disinformation. look at a fact check website for Obama. that claims includes multiple votes for the say bill, and other provisional things that even McCain voted for. Getting rid of Bush tax cuts is not truly increasing taxes.  Democrats have that track record of creating surplus' and republicans have the track record of leaving deficits.  Again Obama would bring us no closer to socialism than Bush has brought us to Facism.

on Oct 08, 2008

JackDaniels64


 
HAHAHAHA. We're better off after Bush's eight years then? And we'd be better off with someone who runs strikingly similar campaign to King George? Someone who agrees with Bush over Ninety percent of the time, and I suspect the percentage  he disagres only stems from when he used to a maverick between his 2000 campaign and september 2001.
 

I bet Fidel Castro agrees with Bush very rarely.  Does that mean you would vote for him?

On the domestic side,I am not sure what Obama supporters can really argue that Bush did so badly other than not veto the spending spree congressional republicans went on.

on Oct 08, 2008

Calling him Socialist is no different then calling Bush and McCain Facist.

Explain how Obama doesn't have socialistic tendancies?  Obama believes that money should be taken from one individual and be given to another for no other reason than his belief that one person needs it less than another.

If that isn't socialism in action, how do you define it?

on Oct 08, 2008

As we saw with Hoover

to which hoover do you refer? 

vladimar hoover?  karl hoover? 

certainly not herbert c hoover who castigated his opponent, al smith, in a speech during the 1928 campaign as follows:

 "There has been revived in this campaign, however, a series of proposals which, if adopted, would be a long step towards the abandonment of our American system and a surrender to the destructive operation of governmental conduct of commercial business. Because the country is faced with difficulty and doubt over certain national problems — that is prohibition, farm relief and electrical power — our opponents propose that we must thrust government a long way into the businesses which give rise to these problems. In effect they abandon the tenets of their own party and turn to State socialism."

and...

"We are confronted with a huge program of government in business . . . based on principles destructive of its [the "American system's"] very foundations." 

compared to al smith, fdr was a commisar who also opposed prohibition, favored public utilities (like the tva) and had no problem helping farmers back when farmers weren't corporate agribiz execs collecting subsidies. 

luckily hoover lost the 1932 election to fdr who imposed all those unfair regulations that hadda be dismantled in order to permit wall street enough freedom to bankrupt the country again a lil less than 80 years afterwards.

on Oct 08, 2008

Draginol


I bet Fidel Castro agrees with Bush very rarely.  Does that mean you would vote for him?

On the domestic side,I am not sure what Obama supporters can really argue that Bush did so badly other than not veto the spending spree congressional republicans went on.

 

That's idoitic. No I Wouldn't. If I think his policies hurt this country horrible, why would I vote for some whome agrees with him 95% of the time? Besides I bet Castro and Bush hate freedom equally. They probably have more in common the Bush and Obama.  I vote on Issues. Which policy is best for working towards the fairytale America I was taught growing up.

I assume your only talking about economics and not things like Americans tortured, and one case of which being on American soil.  How about appointing either inpet or foxes in the hen house to posts like the Epa for example. I will say I agree,  and apolgise for generalising most probelms on Bush's inept Leadership. It also the fault of His admistration, and the congress.  The democrats aren't blame free, but Republicans have hurt us much more in the past 30 years. To be clear, I am also not a fan of either of the Clintons. Or my home states Kerry either for that matter.

on Oct 08, 2008

Draginol

Calling him Socialist is no different then calling Bush and McCain Facist.
Explain how Obama doesn't have socialistic tendancies?  Obama believes that money should be taken from one individual and be given to another for no other reason than his belief that one person needs it less than another.

If that isn't socialism in action, how do you define it?

 

Hey thats fine if you take it that way. The devil's advocate is republicans are the same as a facist party from Germany, Italy, or Spain. They Torture, Declare endless wars, Fear monger, Spy on its own citizens. Unprecedently called for the military to be used on home soil  permanatly, They have given the government away to corporations. Beginning with Nixon they have been a win at all costs party, no matter who the hurt.

 

The principle of Democracy is the ability to change into any ship and defy labels like Socialism and Facism. It can take from any idea put out there with out truly being that philosophy.

 

Socialism is how Cuba, The USSR, and Venezula govern for example. Our Tax system is progressive and not flat, becuase we are all contributing to our society. To the well being of our country. If Republican's don't believe in that, they can start lobbying against they want, Like the insane amount of bases we have around the world, our large standing army pre-9/11, The Rich and Corporations can start actually paying taxes, considering most of them do not and are rich enough to get away with it. Hell I am fairly sure if the just paid taxes they would see the go down.  If we had a flat tax, then the poor would pay most of their income so we can continue to have a base in germany, while a corporation  and some rich guy still wouldn't be paying their taxes because they can get away with it,  while the poor guy is paying for the rich guys policies.

on Oct 09, 2008

Unprecedently called for the military to be used on home soil permanatly

I could swear it was Obama who said he wanted to do exactly this - create a national police force, the domestic equivalent of the US Military.

And apparently you're another of the folks suckered into the myth that corporations pay taxes - they absolutely don't, they simply collect them from you and me in the form of higher prices & pass them on to the IRS.

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