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A new beginning

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The story of Galactic Civilizations is the story of the future.  Our future. 

Galactic Civilizations III is actually our 6th edition that provides you with the framework to tell that story (we made 3 OS/2 versions back in the 1990s).

With each iteration, we get a little bit better at it. Sometimes, like when we change engines, it takes awhile to surpass where we were in previous editions.  For instance, the OS/2 version of Galactic Civilizations was, in most respects, better than Galactic Civilizations II until we made the Dark Avatar expansion for it.

For Galactic Civilizations III, it probably wasn't until we made the Crusade expansion that we finally surpassed GalCiv II.

Galactic Civilizations III: Retribution takes us in a direction that the series has never touched before. It's a new beginning.

The Grognard's Guide to Galactic Civilizations III

From a sheer major feature point of view, Galactic Civilizations III had more than previous versions when it arrived in 2015.  But it was lacking certain features that were a real sore point to players, which we began to address with the expansions. Namely:

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This is my quickie non-marketing evaluation of each expansion. You can kind of see why Mercenaries was the least beloved. This is, by no means, a comprehensive list of features for each one. Just the ones that I think most players would agree were important.  For instance, Crusade re-did the Invasion system. I don't think that feature is any better or worse than what was there before, so I didn't count it.

Crusade is widely considered to be "the big one," and it's easy to understand why: citizens.

This was a game-changer.  It re-did the game's economy in a way that is both a lot easier to understand, and yet a lot more nuanced. It's one of those rare features that greatly simplifies the presentation of the game without dumbing it down. In fact, it makes the game a lot more sophisticated.

The other two features I mentioned, Espionage and the Civ Builder, are pretty big deals - depending on how you play. The Civ Builder is almost as important to me as the Citizen feature. The espionage part is fine.  But it's not on par with the other features.

So let's take a second shot at this chart, this time assigning a value to each feature:

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Now, this doesn't mean that I don't think Intrigue wasn't a really good expansion. It just means that Crusade was monstrously good.

So what about Retribution?  As you can see, I don't think any of the new features of Retribution match the importance of the Citizens feature.  Moreover, if you don't really care about the new species (Drath and Korath) or the new campaign, then Retribution only has 15 to Crusade's 16 points. 

Of course, this is just my own rating system, yours might be totally different.

Right from the Start

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The final version of Retribution should look better.  We're still working on the visuals. But you will notice, right away, some changes.  First, you start with an Artifact.  You always start with one.

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Your home planets are much different game to game. And if you look closely, you will notice that what's available to construct on turn 1 has changed.

Sometimes, there will be artifacts that can be enhanced so cheaply that you may want to use them immediately rather than building that shipyard. 

The other thing you may notice is that there's a Colonization Center improvement. This is a new, one-time improvement that will increase production, population, and growth.

Population Growth

This will be the most controversial change in Retribution. Default growth has been reduced from 0.1 per turn to 0.01.

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Population growth can be increased (especially later in the game via the new immigration technologies), but simply colony rushing early on is going to have consequences.

Here's the next thing you're going to notice:

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The stars are substantially further apart. This makes the star systems feel more vast (before we had them practically on top of each other) and makes Hypergates interesting.  You can still choose to go up the engine tech tree to make your ships faster, but investing in Hypergates provides an interesting alternative.

Same number of techs, more meaning

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You'll also notice that most of the optimization techs (where you would choose one of three) are gone.  Instead, there are new techs that help flesh out your strategic choices.  For instance, you don't simply get Space Elevators - you research them.  Spatial Manipulation gets you onto the Hypergate tech path. Ignore my spelling mistakes btw, they'll get fixed.

There are many more things you can choose to build than before (potentially), but they are delivered now via the tech tree moreso than before.

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Space Elevators are important in the true Sci-Fi sense that we just kind of brushed off in previous expansions.  The ability to cheaply get things into space is going to be a pretty big deal.  Besides being able to build space elevators, you'll also be able to build supply ships that can send raw materials to your colonies.  I'll talk about that in a second.

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Building scouts is a lot more useful now that stars are actually separated by quite a bit of space.

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Under the covers, we've modified our galaxy generation system so that what's near players when they start is a lot more balanced. So you won't have to deal with games where one player has tons of great planets near them, while you get nothing. Everyone will have a reasonably equally good (or crappy) start.

Building your civilization in Retribution

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So now I  have a class 12 (Earth is class 10) planet. Wow. That's great! can't wait right?

Except...

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If you look closely, you will see that its raw production is only 3, so it takes forever for anything to get built. This has been a challenge in all the GalCiv games.  This is why some players find the game a little boring at this stage.  Sure, your capital planet is doing just fine, but your other planets just are a grind to get going.

Before Retribution, you'd just wait for the population to grow, build a bunch of cities and eventually, hours later, it's kicking butt. But from our logs, we know we lose a lot of players during that period because it's just not interesting.

Moreover, if anything, Retribution would aggravate this problem because population growth is 10X slower by default. So you can't just turn-time your way out of this problem. This is where Supply Ships come in. 

Players can build Supply Ships that carry 100 production with them.  When they get to a colony, it's quickly unloaded and used. If there's nothing to build at that moment, it stores that production for later. This is a game-changer because previously, if there was some boon to production, it was wasted after a given planetary improvement was constructed. Now, it gets stored and used later.

Having planets store excess production materials was crucial to add to the game because we didn't want players to have to micro-manage sending out supply ships.

Supplying your civilization

So now you can build up your worlds a lot faster thanks to sending Supply Ships.  However, there's that tricky distance issue. 

Do you design each Supply Ship (which is consumed when it reaches its destination) to have a bunch of engines? That's expensive but it'll get them there.

Or...

Do you build a Hypergate?

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The Stellar Architect is a new type of ship which allows for the construction of Hypergates.  It takes two hypergates to create a hyperlane between them.  But doing so will double the speed of any ship on that lane.

Hyperlanes

Now you build a Stellar Architect who can construct a Hypergate.  You will need to build a second one to create the other end.

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Once you build that second Hypergate, it will ask where you want to link it.

And now you can fast-track supply ships.

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Using hyperlanes is automatic. You don't have to do anything - just click on a destination and your ship will find the fastest route there, using hyperlanes whenever available.

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Meanwhile, my planet is still slowly building up, thanks to having some asteroids nearby to help. It's still very slow going, but help is on the way.

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The Supply ship arrives with goods from Earth.  Each turn, it will use whatever it takes (until it runs out) to finish the current planetary improvement being constructed.

So instead of it taking 12 turn to get through the Factory, Space Elevator, and Shipyard projects, it only takes 3 with the Farm being finished on turn 5 (instead of it adding an additional 14 turns).

Hypergates also make it a lot more viable to send citizens around your territory because they get there twice as fast, which makes traveling far less dangerous.

To conclude: sending a Supply ship built at Earth to Viola drastically reduced construction time.

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Now this planet is built up enough to be reasonably self-sustaining.

Pacing Pacing Pacing

Hypergates and Supply ships not only expand on your strategic options, but allow you to customize your civilization a lot more specifically while simultaneously reducing the mid-game doldrums of waiting for your planets and ships to be worthwhile.

Let me know your thoughts in the comments! Still lots to talk about.

______________________________

Retribution Journals

Journal #1 (Current)

Journal #2

Journal #3

Journal #4

Journal #5

Journal #6

Journal #7

Journal #8

Journal #9 (Coming Soon)


Comments (Page 5)
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on Feb 04, 2019

ScrivenerOfLight


Quoting cbholmes,

Retribution is in Beta testing.



Oh, okay. When you said "we're seeing" in the beta, it made me wonder whether you had actually seen/played a beta version of the game.

 

Yes, I have. I'm in the beta. 

on Feb 04, 2019

Ah, so I did miss something   

on Feb 04, 2019

Like I said earlier, you can still colony rush.  The difference now, however, is that colonies don't instantly become useful like they did before.  You have to research techs to build them up and actually invest in them from the home world.

As a result, what planets you pick matters more.  If I know of 10 planets, I might pick one that is further away if it has an artifact or something else special on it rather than whatever is the closest in order to quickly build up.

In RTS games, there is RUSH, BOOM, and TURTLE.  The issue I have with the colony rush isn't that it exists, but that it is, by far, the most powerful strategy regardless of the map, the players, or the settings.  This is something that Retribution addresses, imo, pretty well.

 

on Feb 04, 2019

Would you like to comment about map size, spacing, and planet count?

on Feb 04, 2019

Gauntlet03

Would you like to comment about map size, spacing, and planet count?

Map sizes are getting a bit bigger, especially smaller maps.  Not sure what more to say on spacing. Stars are further apart. No change on planet count. Stars tend to have more planets now.

on Feb 04, 2019

Really like what I am seeing so far. One question about the population growth changes. Does this mean there are changes to the costs for Yor to manufacture population frogboy?

on Feb 05, 2019

Wish I could help with the beta. Unfortunately I'm outside the USA, thousands of miles away from my laptop.

on Feb 05, 2019

How does one get into the Beta? Who's palm has to be crossed with BCs, the shattered bodies of broken Drengin men and recordings of the lamentations of their women (which are not the most melodious sounds in the universe, I assure you!)?

on Feb 05, 2019

deleted

 

 

on Feb 05, 2019

dragoaskani

Really like what I am seeing so far. One question about the population growth changes. Does this mean there are changes to the costs for Yor to manufacture population frogboy?

Yes.

on Feb 05, 2019

Retribution new map size on Ludicrous.  

on Feb 05, 2019

Frogboy

Like I said earlier, you can still colony rush.  The difference now, however, is that colonies don't instantly become useful like they did before.  You have to research techs to build them up and actually invest in them from the home world.

Man, I don't want to be disrespectful here, but this simply isn't true. 

With the serious nerf to growth rate, there is no colony rush. You can colonize 5 planets, max, before you're tapped out of population. And then you're waiting for a LONG time before you have enough people to push another ship out. 

I, personally, don't care about how fast a new colony grows. If your goal is to simply slow down how effective new planets are to an empire, by all means - slow down the production, the improvement building, etc. 

But because population growth rate is now nerfed across-the-board, there is no way to grab all the available planets on the larger maps (which really don't get very big until "Excessive"). 

Right now, the only thing I can hope for is that a modder fixes the homeworld with some kind of edit. If you want to keep new world growth rates slow, sure, that even makes sense to a degree. But nerfing the homeworld to achieve this goal cripples the ability to grab planets in range. 

Frogboy

As a result, what planets you pick matters more.  If I know of 10 planets, I might pick one that is further away if it has an artifact or something else special on it rather than whatever is the closest in order to quickly build up.

That logic already applied though. Precursor worlds are King. And anyone with that DLC who isn't prioritizing Precursor worlds is not playing smart. And rare resources like Armor Spice, Epimethius Pollen (and food-rich worlds for Carbon-based lifeforms) already caused this to happen. Give me a choice between a Class 8 with Armor Spice and a class 15 with something else, and I'm going for the Armor Spice so I can use an Epiphany later on when I really need it. 

This nerf DOES NOT CHANGE THAT. In any way. I'm playing the beta - I am STILL prioritizing planets exactly the same as before. 

Artifacts? Neat idea - but require a bunch more research to "recharge" them and I have yet to see one that would make a world more important than a Precursor, Armor Spice, Epimethius Pollen, or a boatload of Food. 

Frogboy

In RTS games, there is RUSH, BOOM, and TURTLE.  The issue I have with the colony rush isn't that it exists, but that it is, by far, the most powerful strategy regardless of the map, the players, or the settings.  This is something that Retribution addresses, imo, pretty well.

Good lord. It's not a strategy man. It's a fact of mathematics. It's a zero-sum game. 

And last I checked, this isn't an RTS. It's a turn-based 4X. And until now, the best one out there, hands down. 

You guys have solid gold on your pocket and you don't even realize what you have. 

Retribution is going to make Galactic Civ 3 - which was the king-daddy of epic 4X games - play like Endless Space, or Civ 5, where you're going to be punished for Expansion. 

I just don't get it. You guys had the golden ticket. 

on Feb 05, 2019

With the serious nerf to growth rate, there is no colony rush. You can colonize 5 planets, max, before you're tapped out of population. And then you're waiting for a LONG time before you have enough people to push another ship out. 

There are numerous ways around this already with more being added.  For example, if you play as good, you can get a fully loaded colony ship which gives you 5 instant population.  There is also a Galactic Wonder (Tyron's Destiny) added that produces a one-time boom in population on the planet it is built on.   So no, that's actually not the case.

Artifacts? Neat idea - but require a bunch more research to "recharge" them and I have yet to see one that would make a world more important than a Precursor, Armor Spice, Epimethius Pollen, or a boatload of Food. 

There are artifacts with infinite charge abilities. So yea, there are ones much more valuable.  For example, there is an artifact that increases the planet quality of a world and you can get a lot of charges for that.  Being able to slowly turn a class 12 planet into a class 20 planet over the course of the game on top of the normal planetary upgrades is pretty substantial.

There are also artifacts that can summon a space monster that you can set loose anywhere on the map which can wreak havoc.  

There are artifacts that instantly complete a research project and of course artifacts that can teleport enemy ships anywhere you want.

Obviously, it is challenging to be able to make use of these powers frequently which is part of the strategy.

Good lord. It's not a strategy man. It's a fact of mathematics. It's a zero-sum game. 

And last I checked, this isn't an RTS. It's a turn-based 4X. And until now, the best one out there, hands down.

You are making a lot of assessments for someone who isn't very familiar with what Retribution is about.   The concept of interesting choices is from the original Civilization game.  There shouldn't be a single way to win a game. That's bad design. 

The path to victory should be a combination of adapting to the environment (the map you are placed in) and how well you execute on the strategy to deal with that adaption.

Virtually all your complaints seem to focus on misconceptions on the changes in Retribution.

Example: You think colony rush is "nerfed" because natural population growth is reduced from 0.1 per turn to 0.01 without considering that there are ways to mitigate that (through ideology / wonders / techs).

You complain about Tourism being nerfed even though Paxton's Emporium is available in Universal Translator, a tech literally available on turn 1. And Import/Export centers available in a tech available within the first 10 turns.

 

on Feb 05, 2019

cbholmes

the only thing I can hope for is that a modder fixes the homeworld with some kind of edit

That should be an easy fix--off the top of my head, could boost growth in civ capital improvement...

Frogboy

There are artifacts with infinite charge abilities. So yea, there are ones much more valuable.  For example, there is an artifact that increases the planet quality of a world and you can get a lot of charges for that.  Being able to slowly turn a class 12 planet into a class 20 planet over the course of the game on top of the normal planetary upgrades is pretty substantial.

There are also artifacts that can summon a space monster that you can set loose anywhere on the map which can wreak havoc.  

There are artifacts that instantly complete a research project and of course artifacts that can teleport enemy ships anywhere you want.

Obviously, it is challenging to be able to make use of these powers frequently which is part of the strategy.

This sounds awesome, Frogboy.

Frogboy

The path to victory should be a combination of adapting to the environment (the map you are placed in) and how well you execute on the strategy to deal with that adaption.

In my favorite games, you can win without being the most powerful or having the best/most of whatever resource (in the current example, I'd say planets, resources, etc.). The element of surprise and being able to swiftly change the dynamic (even if at great cost) is, to me, a welcomed design decision. Adding artifacts in particular makes it sound like using limited resources carefully can pay off in big ways. I love the idea of using a precious, rare resource to thwart an opponent and then come back for a win--not necessarily through brute strength but by cunning.

Thanks for the additional details!

on Feb 05, 2019

cbholmes

It's a zero-sum game.

I tend to agree to some extent that right now, the game is largely decided by early colonization. This isn't always true. I've come back from the bottom by convincing everyone else to go to war, engaging heavily in diplomacy, and slowly building up a superior (if smaller) force.

What makes me excited about Retribution is it sounds like the game is moving away from what you call "zero sum." If you get fewer but significantly better planets and can, as Frogboy indicated, use artifacts, new improvements, and techs to make a planet phenomenal... that to me makes it no longer "zero sum."

If what is gained by one player is ultimately twice or three times as useful as the two planets another player gains, the number of planets becomes less important. More is still better, but fewer better planets can be better than more low-class planets. By definition, that's not zero-sum. All planets would have to be essentially equal in value for it to be zero sum--which isn't even the case now... But it sounds like Retribution is pushing the game further from the "zero-sum" model you seem to think this game employs...

And I'm willing to admit I may be wrong or making an incorrect assumption about what you mean by "zero sum."

I also want to take the opportunity to acknowledge that you have me at a disadvantage--you have actual hands-on experience with the game, and I don't. So everything I say is qualified by that fact. I'm responding only to what I've read and seen here as well as to the reputation that Stardock has built as a developer and around the game itself--and the progressively improved quality of GalCivIII with each update, DLC, and expansion.

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