Brad Wardell's site for talking about the customization of Windows.

Farming

I'm not liking the farming mechanic.  It seemed like a good idea on paper but in practice, it's just tedious and exploitive.  Here's how I'd like to see it work:

image

Some planets would have a Arable land tile including all starting planets.  Building on these tiles produces food.

The tech tree would have a path for players who want to get the most out of those resources to get a lot of food.  The arable land resource be destructable -- you can destroy it (like you can any resource btw) to put something else there.   This would make food take its rightful place as an important strategic resource rather than one that is simply produced by min/maxing.

What are your thoughts?


Comments (Page 5)
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on Feb 16, 2018

Triple_Crown

The problem with food is, that you can have it any place because everything from photosynthesis to ground nutrients can be artificial, even with 21st century tech. So it does not make any sense to restrain food production. 

And dont get ridiculus with arable land, otherwise its like on one hand you build quantum torpedoes, but on the other you call for middle ages peasants to develop arable land.

The icons for farms also show a dome and one of them is elevated far off the ground. Doesn't seem like we need specific terrain to grow food.

Also, Matt Damon grew Mars potatoes. It's hard to imagine the Thalan, Altarians, or Iconians being hamstrung by the dirt under their feet.

on Feb 16, 2018

Honestly I would prefer you spend 30 minutes or however long it would take you to fix the broken "Station Garrison", before changing any other game mechanics. I don't really mind how food works at the moment.

 

on Feb 16, 2018

If there is a penalty for certain tiles it would be cost. Everything else is overcomable by technology.

on Feb 16, 2018
Robot food could be a special power station that needs x anti every y turns.
on Feb 16, 2018

Triple_Crown

Here are a couple of points: it is estimated that already in 21st century people will begin to "eat" food through nanobots, doing no physical effort whatsoever.

 

The problem with food is, that you can have it any place because everything from photosynthesis to ground nutrients can be artificial, even with 21st century tech. So it does not make any sense to restrain food production. 

And dont get ridiculus with arable land, otherwise its like on one hand you build quantum torpedoes, but on the other you call for middle ages peasants to develop arable land.

 

My proposal would be do adjustments with some math, but i am not smart enough to propose what those might be.

The game is unrealistic in so many aspects that it makes no sense to develop a food mechanic that is in any way "realistic". It should just be an interesting game mechanic, no more, no less.

on Feb 16, 2018

How about completely get rid of the food system and just let every planet grow to planet cap size?

At the same time, nerf prolific and make the ratio of pop to production at 2 to 1 (2 pop for 1 point of raw production).  This will automatically make the AI better in relation to the player.  And it gets rid of a tedious clunky mechanic no one particularly likes.

Also, buff synthetics.  Provide an "auto-manufacture population" command (so I don't have to constantly click on "manufacture population", which is tedious) that only requires social production points (no durantium or promethium requirements) and as balance make it so that synthetics can grow their population 50% more than the planet class.  

on Feb 16, 2018

aerez4546

Honestly I would prefer you spend 30 minutes or however long it would take you to fix the broken "Station Garrison", before changing any other game mechanics. I don't really mind how food works at the moment.

 

As much as I agree with you, if the devs don't do anything about it perhaps my solution helps you: I modded out the legion cost for "Station Garrison".

I don't know what's so difficult in putting in an option so that the player can decide whether projects do auto-repeat or not, or if that's too much work (because of the need to change the UI what really seems to be an issue) to introduce two versions of each project, one that is performed only once and the other  that is auto-repeating.

But we digress ...

on Feb 16, 2018

I disagree that food shall be abandoned completely. If its a global resource, it leaves a vulnerable weak spot to be hit, to weaken a player's empire, if not guarded properly.

Secondly, food helps to the imagination and make different feel for carbon based and synthetic races. 

As such, food is a good idea, a good thing to have because living beings eat food after all. But again, one thing is the idea, the other - to implement it. 

on Feb 16, 2018

marigoldran

How about completely get rid of the food system and just let every planet grow to planet cap size?

At the same time, nerf prolific and make the ratio of pop to production at 2 to 1 (2 pop for 1 point of raw production).  This will automatically make the AI better in relation to the player.  And it gets rid of a tedious clunky mechanic no one particularly likes.

Also, buff synthetics.  Provide an "auto-manufacture population" command (so I don't have to constantly click on "manufacture population", which is tedious) that only requires social production points (no durantium or promethium requirements) and as balance make it so that synthetics can grow their population 50% more than the planet class.  

Constantly taking things out if they don't appeal to everyone is nothing what I would like to see. Also I doubt that "no one particularly likes" the current mechanic, because the people on the forums are not a representative sample of all players.

What I also not like is the ongoing talk about "nerf things so far until the AI finally understands how to use them correctly". I like an interesting, randomized game and have no problem with unbalanced features. If I lose I start a new game.

Just my opinion, no offense intended.

on Feb 16, 2018

iRedEarth


Quoting EazyWin,

The second is trickier. I suggest keeping farms as improvements, but basically turning them into little superchargers for the city engines via adjacency bonuses. The base farm would have the +1 pop adjacency and a +0.1 to growth. This would probably render the hospital unnecessary, but I don't know if many people were even using it in its current state anyway.

What you're describing for farms is what hospital do already, but better. A hospital will give +2 adjecency to a city, giving it +20% population cap, and it gives 0.2 growth plus another 0.1 from adjecency. So you're suggesting that farms be a weaker version of hospitals, while also saying hospitals aren't worth using.

 

The Hospital is 1 per colony, farms would be spammable. Also, that was for the base farm, and the real value for the farm in my suggestion was having additional adjacency bonuses at higher levels for non-growth categories (wealth, influence, etc.), making them more versatile than a hospital.

on Feb 16, 2018

As noted above, i'd go with:

Have the unused available tiles on each planet produce food by default

This forces a great choice on the player- as you develop the planet, you trade farming space for other functions -construction, research, influence, etc.  These would need to be completely unused, so special tiles with resources like monsantium wouldn't produce food, regardless of their development status. Shade the production up or down for desert, toxic or bread basket planets as appropriate.

The game could provide some opportunities to make extra productive food tiles via research paths like the arcologies or greenhouses referred to above, or possibly allow some starbase food modules as well to extend the food supply. The current food enhancement improvements could be built and used as they are now.

Aquatics would need ocean tiles (maybe at a higher base production). Not sure about the synthetics.

  • Pros
    • This should be readily understandable to the new player 
    • dead simple for the AI at the start
    • makes for the interesting choices later in the games
    • has an element of realism in it without extra micromanagement
    • makes some smaller planets without special tiles more desirable
  • Cons
    • disservice to the effort real world farmers put in
    • might affect the tall vs wide empire choices unduly

 

Just my thoughts.

on Feb 16, 2018

The default, unused tiles should neither give nor receive food bonuses for adjacency for this. If the tile itself has a special bonus, that tile could be bumped up.

on Feb 16, 2018

What if cities "spawned" automatically as population maxes out. So they just automatically spawn on a free tile (if available) as the population grows and you can still choose to build and demolish cities if need be. It makes sense that the civ leader places production, research, farms, defences etc. on a planet. But maybe cities should be more organic so the planet pop itself builds them as needed. I think this would work well for AI, but still give full control to player.

Then food is no longer a requirement to build cities but instead just controls pop growth. Food shortage and the population declines. Food abundance and pop grows and cities spawn.

on Feb 16, 2018

marigoldran

How about completely get rid of the food system and just let every planet grow to planet cap size?

At the same time, nerf prolific and make the ratio of pop to production at 2 to 1 (2 pop for 1 point of raw production).  This will automatically make the AI better in relation to the player.  And it gets rid of a tedious clunky mechanic no one particularly likes.

Also, buff synthetics.  Provide an "auto-manufacture population" command (so I don't have to constantly click on "manufacture population", which is tedious) that only requires social production points (no durantium or promethium requirements) and as balance make it so that synthetics can grow their population 50% more than the planet class.  
If you have this, please make it an option.

on Feb 16, 2018

lyssailcor

Quoting aerez4546,

of the need to change the UI what really seems to be an issue) to introduce two versions of each project, one that is performed only once and the other  that is auto-repeating.

But we digress ...

This is another option please make auto repeat projects an option, and please make planetary options in the main menu, and also on planets that overide  global options with an option to set all colonies to global.

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