It isn't meant to be played this zoomed out. Okay, I get it. But why?

I find the design decision to make a large strategic RTS game played on large maps without this ability questionable. Was it too hard technically?

The problem is that no one can effectively manage units across the scale of the map effectively. This ends up being a failed UX. Part of that has been voiced elsewhere in this thread. If I have to click and drag twenty times to send a unit (precisely) where I want it to go, it is broken.

The situational awareness is also lacking without this ability. I know there is a mini map. But honestly I feel it ruins the flow of the game and is less playable and elegant a solution.

Unfortunately I understand software development and it is likely too late.

What you guys have built in most regards is really impressive at this point. It could have been legendary...

Sorry guys i just got back here, I thank everyone for looking at my examples.

I understand you Frogboy about not having the time and budget to work on both ideas (strategic map and 20,000 foot game that look spectacular)

I am sure everyone will love to have both, but its Stardock/Oxide decision to choose what is the best option right now. but i do hope to get 100,000 feet enabled zoom to play with in future Updates after V1 game, like you said its whole new layer of information that need to be done using 100,000 feet zoom, it will be lovely to have it done.

About the Empire tree, I am working on a small example on how to show the players all the units info without having to scroll down a lot for it. i will put it in here in a few hours.

God idea if You can zoom out to this view (Even if you cant select/move units at this zoom level). The whole idea with zoom out (in my opinion) is to easy navigate between areas. Also good idea to make this optional in settings.

I think if you ever wrote an article about how a game is budgeted or how developers try (very hit and miss ) to work out potential future player base or how devs objectively determine what features might make or break a game then it would be very interesting and educational to a lot of us. 

I would be very interested in the budgeting side as how do you know how much it will cost to develop a game like this when you have to do plenty of R&D etc. which are really unknown quantities. It must come down to a lot of experience I would imagine from doing similar things before. Doesn't seem like a very neat solution though

I would really love to see this too

Frogboy

reply 10

Quoting Ticktoc,

reply 7

I was going to wait for clarification before saying anything but what the hell...

Please let us zoom out at least as far as in your picture. It still looks very playable to me. Forget about icons but give us the zoom. You wanted feedback from the players, here it is

Are you worried it will make even T3s look small and loose the feeling of scale you want? With huge maps that is going to happen anyway I'm afraid.

I'm more worried that doing so will open up a different can of worms.

For instance, while you might be cool with just being able to zoom out, what about the people who will insist on there being informational overlays? Or what about the people whose machines will slow to a crawl because it hasn't been optimized enough? Or the people who will want the units to move even faster?

What I'd probably be inclined to do, at least for now, is make it settable in the settings.ini and see what expert players like you guys think without having to deal with the blow back from the guys who already think the game is too slow.

Although I do like to zoom out to get a strategic level view in Sup Com, I usually use zoom for a far more pedestrian reason: navigating the map.  I start at one battle, quickly zoom out, and zoom in to the other location I want to look out.  I'm constantly doing this, and I can't imagine playing the game without this ability.  It's so hard to go back to RTSs that don't offer this.

I agree, I see zoom primarily as a navigation tool as well. It's especially important for ashes given the huge size of some of the maps. I find existing navigation options, such as double clicking on a control groups #, to be kind of disorienting when you are fighting numerous battles throughout the map.

Me to agree with above. Strategic zoom is important for navigating between areas. Not so much for giving orders when zoomed out fully.

1000x this at the very least for folks with the hardware to run it.

Kickstarter-funded side project!

I personally think the zoomed out view is killer.  You must feel like a demi-god of your own personal little world when you play around with this stuff.  

Talk about introducing a sense of realism if you round the edges a bit to drive home that you are battling it out across an entire planet or portions of a planet.

I also love ASADDF's mock-ups.  

This may be a dumb idea, but why can't you cheat a little and use a fixed image at the 100,000 ft. zoom out view as the basis for the strategic layer on each map?  You could:  

• Have a zoom out effect or something when you hit the space bar that appears to zip you up to a fixed 100,000 ft. image of the planet.
• Have the colors on the map presented in ASADDF's mock-up update in real time with flash points, etc. like you already plan; but not render the movement of individual units around the map in real time or w/e causes the optimization issues.
• Use the stationary or whatever icons you already plan to use for resources, etc. on the strat map (I'm NOT advocating the whole control by icon view -- just w/e you guys already have planned).   
• When the player clicks on an area on the strat map, insert zoom effect (or w/e is actually possible), and take em' down to that point on the map and back into the real time battle.

I feel like you'd add realism to the experience by making people feel like they are looking at an actual planet vs. a 2D swath of land or readout, you'd make the strategic map really eye-catching, etc.

Just my two cents.  Keep rockin' this game guys.  Exciting stuff.

I will give up this topic i already try make my point i give up ,i just will keep play with full zoom until i cant mix the files no more

To who is msg me to tell how, sry but you guys have to understand and put here the feedback wy you want or they dont understand.

And for who understand software development now its too late for this like young already say.

Things from Zoom games and reading all the posts:

I get ashes want to re-invent the wheel- that's ok- but for that it must be one of a kind.

Zoom works out great if it doesn't impact performance.

Until the wheel is re-invented- could take years- give an option like a simple tick- "Zoom enabled", "Zoom disabled" that way you would avoid flame wars from both parties until heat signatures or even a different approach is re-designed.

If you give it like an option- more people would be satisfied and people from both parties would be more involved to figure out the right way. Some will say Zoom dsnt work, some will say heat wont work- so give it an option.

Also my idea would be layer warfare. You zoom to a new layer- to a new UI where it is optimized for 1000 units, then 10k, 20k etc. Each Ui layer would have its implementation and you can easily add whatever approach you want. Make it fun to be blunt.

The tech is already here, would save V-ram, c-pu cycles and it all can be made fun. So want to re-invent wheel- think outside the box! Or in this case- get rid of the box and you have your 3ed option.

We aren't looking to make this:

There is a market for these kinds of games. But that's not the game we're looking to make.

If you hit the space bar you can do that right now.

I hear your arguments against strategic zoom. And I disagree. But ofcourse I fully respect your choice. I guess its hard to go back to non strategic zoom games when you have tasted strategic zoom. Its like beeing forced to play a table game with your head forced to be never more then 20 cm away from the board. 

Anyway I love the game. Keep up the good work.

S.

Speaking as someone who has studied perceptual psychology, there is a huge perceptual difference between moving via the strategic (space bar) map, and moving via zoom. Zoom emulates how we visually perceive movement in our optic array. For instance, global expansion (i.e. everything getting bigger) specifies forward movement of the individual, and vice versa with global contraction. The graduated expansion as one zooms in and out implicitly provides an understanding of one's relative location to other points on the map that is not as effectively communicated with a static strategic map.

I completely understand that you don't want to game to be played at a high zoom level, and that you don't want to create abstract unit icons (beyond a heat map); however, I feel that zoom is still a necessity from a usability perspective for navigating the expansive areas that we have in this game.