Brad Wardell's site for talking about the customization of Windows.

The Internet is toxic, but its toxicity is usually equal opportunity

One of the more annoying trends in our society has been the substitution of action with rhetoric.  This has really taken off in the age of Twitter where people think hashtags are a replacement for actually doing something.

Today I read an Opinion Piece on Polygon called “No Skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry”  by a woman named Brianna Wu. It's an article I recommend checking out.

However, I do have some criticisms of the piece. For starters, it is a bad piece of journalism. It relies completely on sensationalist emotionalism to back up its blanket assertion (“the daily harassment of women in the game industry”). 

Such articles, even opinion pieces, are apparently not open to discussion.  As soon as I expressed some criticism on Twitter the haters came out in force. All sense of reason evaporated.  My criticism was: Be aware that sometimes allegations of sexual harassment are false (remember what happened to me). Sometimes, some women choose to take criticism/teasing/abuse as being due to their sex. 

Let me give you the part from the article that caused me to write my tweet in the first place. 

This is the example Ms. Wu provides as an example of sexual harassment women face:

Two things to point out about this: First, anonymous user (which is one of the sources of why Internet discussion can get so toxic) and second, while clearly abusive, this has nothing to do with the writer being female.  I have gotten tweets to me very similar to this when I've made a casual tweet regarding a game console. Ask Phil Fish about internet abuse. Trolls will cater their trolling to their target.

The point of my tweet is that we need to be careful on this because *sometimes* the allegation that it's *sexual* harassment is false. 

The article provides 4 such anecdotes. The Internet has plenty of vile behavior that many of us run into regularly. But this article tries to make sweeping conclusions with it. I take issue with articles that make sweeping (and arguably sexist) charges against men using 4 anecdotes as evidence.

If we were debating any other topic and someone made a broad, far reaching claim and backed it up with nothing more than 4 anecdotal examples they’d get reamed.  But because we are talking about an ism, it is taboo to raise any skepticism about the article’s agenda.

I’ve been in the game industry a long time. I’ve seen its ugliness in many different forms. So let me tell you: This subject matter is delicate and should be treated as such. 

So let's look at the responses I got when I tweeted that women sometimes make false claims of "sexual harassment" when in fact what they received had nothing to do with their sex:

To which I respond:

Which gets:

Buzzfeed's Nicol Leffel goes right to name-calling almost immediately.

Ugh. There were much more vile responses than these but I blocked them and now I can't find them on twitter.  The point being, even attempting to discuss the topic invites assumptions of sexism and abuse.

There IS misogyny in the game industry but not where the professional victims would have you believe

The misogyny I've seen in our industry is not representative of game culture in general but is a manifestation of Internet toxicity. Let's start with the sexist reaction successful women in the game industry often receive. When a man does something impressive and gets some publicity, they get kudos and support.  But if a woman does something impressive and gets the same publicity, their experience is likely to be terrible and humiliating.  I’ve seen this first hand and it’s discouraging.  But it would be wrong to imply that this is a general issue. Internet culture is toxic.  

...But we have to be careful that this issue isn't exploited by opportunistic people to for professional or personal gain.

I have first hand experience with this. Those of you who know me know the hell I went through when I was falsely accused of "sexual harassment" by a former, opportunistic employee who was hoping for a quick pay off.  

Let me say it plainly: There are women who will exploit this delicate topic for financial or professional gain. Maybe they’re “journalists” who know it’s a quick, easy way to get their article published on Kotaku. Maybe it’s a former journalist whose just gotten into the game industry who wants her upcoming project to get coverage. Or maybe it’s a young woman mad at her boss who wants to exploit the issue to make money. And of course, maybe it’s a legitimate reporting on a serious problem. But sorry, I’m a skeptic now. I didn’t use to be such a skeptic but 2 years of unwarranted smears and death threats have made me take these claims with a grain of salt.

So what can we do?

I’m an engineer, I’m interested in solutions and I think there is a lot we can do to address this issue:

  1. Punish people who harass other people. I.e. Permanently ban someone who writes the kind of disgusting invective that the article cites.  XBox Live and other services allow for an immense level of abuse of all kinds. Don’t tolerate it anymore.
     
  2. Eliminate anonymous profiles on social networks like Xbox Live, Twitter, YouTube. Game sites could eliminate comment anonymity if they were genuinely concerned about this issue.  Anonymity has a place on the net -- forums, groups, etc.  But mainstream social networking should not be anonymous. Maybe it's not doable but as long as it is, trolls will be able to exploit this.
     (I've changed my mind on #2)

  3. Encourage / Reward those who actually DO something. The reason “white knighting” is despised is because it’s really about people making themselves feel good about themselves.   Less rewarding of progressive rhetoric and more reward of progressive action.
     
  4. Encourage people to talk about the transformative effects of a more diversified working environment. We hire a lot of women because it makes our products better. Not because women are “just as good” as men but rather because men and women bring unique strengths.

    Running a company dominated by one sex puts them at a distinct disadvantage in the talent area.  Men and women are different.  Here’s a “sexist” statement: It has been my experience that women are better at UI design than men. I have no idea why. That’s 20 years of observation talking. Men tend to be better at debugging. No idea why. Don’t care. Both seem to be equally effective at writing buggy code.

     
  5. Scrutinize and punish those who make false claims on this topic. We need to be very very careful about tarring and feathering people on this issue. Don’t reward those who are trying to profit from playing the sexism card.

Choose to be part of the solution: Do your part to make the Internet a less toxic environment. Don’t just blindly support empty, feel good pap. Keep your critical thinking cap on.

Update: Slashdot comments are very interesting and in stark contrast to the empty progressive rhetoric on Twitter. http://games-beta.slashdot.org/story/14/07/22/229256/the-daily-harassment-of-women-in-the-game-industry

Update 2: Added more content, added item #2 regarding anonymity. Fixed Typos. (see edit history).

Update 3: Added pics from Twitter.

Update 4: Typos, streamlined.

Update 5: Crossed out item 2. I've been persuaded that it's a bad idea. 


Comments (Page 7)
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on Jul 25, 2014

myfist0

Quoting Frogboy,
 



I thought you were more of a libertarian that a progressive that wants everything regulated, was I wrong?


 

As a libertarian, I don't want the government to force anyone to do anything.  But that doesn't mean I don't support companies doing the right thing. I just don't think force should be used.

on Jul 25, 2014

Frogboy

As a libertarian, I don't want the government to force anyone to do anything.  But that doesn't mean I don't support companies doing the right thing. I just don't think force should be used.

 
Corporations exist to maximize shareholder value. They will not do anything unless it will ultimately improve the bottom line. they avoid controversy and uncertainty. That is they are risk adverse. the only options would be public pressure or gov't regulation. The later would be too big an intrusion, so the only option is public pressure. But, I really don't see that happening.
on Jul 25, 2014

Frogboy

As a libertarian, I don't want the government to force anyone to do anything.  But that doesn't mean I don't support companies doing the right thing. I just don't think force should be used.

Well, without big daddy forcing people at gun point or with jail time, there will always be people that start up forums or social networks that will allow anonymity. Google tried to do this, and the backlash was swift and fierce. 

http://betabeat.com/2012/07/start-using-your-full-name-begs-desperate-youtube-message/

ya, even after they begged, they dropped the idea. 

 

EDIT: You have a company that has it's own forum. Go ahead, give it a try.

on Jul 25, 2014

No one has ever been attacked on Twitter or Facebook, without being on them in the first place.

 

There's a severe disconnect between reality and what people do online, but it's not just in the behavior of trolls.  You're essentially making a celebrity of yourself, and complaining about the flack that comes with it.  Any celebrity will tell you they get death threats, hate mail by the truck load, the odd creepy stalker, and a variety of other problems they often spend a great deal of money to mitigate.  Including copious amounts of innocuous, but impossible to deal with fan mail.

 

Putting yourself out there for the wolves is stupid.  If you don't need to, don't.  If you do, get a gun(everyone should have one anyway) and bitch about how the legal recourse for online stalkers is absolutely dick.

 

Expecting to successfully remove anonymity from the internet is preposterous, the unintended consequences are vast, and the outcome would be void as our mail service is quite sufficient for anonymously sending hate mail even if you could somehow manage to make the internet proof against such things.  Short of a world wide police state, it's simply not going to work.

on Jul 25, 2014

I think the ability to post anonymously is an important one.  For every misanthrope using anonymity to spew venom, somewhere there's someone living under an oppressive government who's relying on anonymity to be able to speak out against it.  And I'm not referring to blatantly political forums either, what seems like an innocuous comment to us on a gaming forum could result in trouble for the poster in many countries.

Not everyone is as lucky as us to live in free-ish countries.

 

on Jul 25, 2014

And yeah, good question.  So why do Stardock forums allow anonymity?

 

on Jul 25, 2014

myfist0


Quoting Frogboy,

I've been posting as myself for a long time (I use Frogboy/Draginol has handles but everyone knows who I am) and people have picked apart my blog posts for years and readily discussed how they would try to economically punish me for having opinions they don't like. 



Sure, and look at what people have done with your info, there are not many people that would ever post their personal opinions on anything if they had to go through that crap. So we would only have people posting that were well off enough to have their own private protection service.

 

Brad here is proposing something that totalitarian states like Iran and South Korea (ok semi-totalitarian in this case) have tried to do.  It won't work in a free society, and some things need privacy.

 

 

on Jul 25, 2014

When I got my first paying job on the internet, my boss suggested not using my real name. I felt weird about it. Why would I need to use a nick to host some game chats and moderate file libraries and a forum? He had been around a long time, had been a co-founder of one of the earliest BBSes, and he assured me I would attract what he called puppydogs. It didn't make sense to me because nowhere was there a picture of me, we weren't doing any video or voice chats, sounded paranoid. I humored him and came up with a nick that was about as non-sexy as I could think up. I did make it a clearly female name because it was important to me not to hide that the person hosting the game chat just happened to be female. I am well aware that being invisible doesn't do anything to change the idea that women don't game. I didn't give it much thought after that. And then a few months later a delusional member of the service got it into his head that I was destined to marry him, used social engineering to get my real name from the service and some other data on me. He flew across the country intending to surprise me with an unexpected marriage (how romantic!) but luckily this stalker was not very good at stalking. I was using a post office box at the time because I was in the process of apartment hunting. That was the address he managed to get so he turned up at the post office! I kid you not. To make a long story short, they called the police on him because he was apparently giving some weird story about having lost the address of his "fiancée" and pestering a post office lady about when I usually came to get the mail. This sort of thing happens to celebrities all the time but I wasn't one. If it happened to me, it could happen to anyone. 

He did not manage to get to me and no violence occurred. He did go home without causing any more trouble. Later he sent a morose email to my staff account, professing his undying love for me but admitting he supposed there was nothing he could do. He apologized for giving me the "wrong impression" of him. Still, it was very disturbing. My boss was right, somehow I attracted a puppydog, a lonely crazy one. The person who did this wasn't a kid. He was in his 30s. Stalking is a huge problem in MMOs, too. Stalkers come in all genders, all ages, all races. Some people out there are just crazy and these days they have a lot more tools they can use to stalk people.

What you have just read is an anecdote and I understand if you don't believe it. I'm not giving you any hard proof. I am not naming any names you can Google. It happened a long time ago, before the majority of people were on FB, and before it became an easy thing to post a satellite photo of someone's home. I have lost touch with the boss I mention, and he may no longer be with us. If I ever take a job that requires me to use my real name as a staff member on the internet, I will do my best to get Google to remove my address and any images of where I live, on the grounds of privacy concerns. Obviously, if I do manage to put out a game, I will have to put my real name on it if I ever intend to sell it. I promise it won't be about cooking, farming, modeling, or shampooing poodles. No offense to people who like those, but they aren't my thing. If they are your thing, by all means, enjoy.

on Jul 25, 2014

Oh, I absolutely believe you.  I have a male friend who decided, on a whim, to play a female character in Everquest back when it first came out.  The number of creepy borderline stalkers who came out of the woodwork was eye-opening.

Glad to hear nothing worse happened with your incident!

 

on Jul 25, 2014

Cauldyth

I have a male friend who decided, on a whim, to play a female character in Everquest back when it first came out. The number of creepy borderline stalkers who came out of the woodwork was eye-opening.

I don't think the EQ box art helped much in that regard. It sort of promised something they expected their players to deliver. I didn't play it very long.

on Jul 25, 2014

myfist0

EDIT: You have a company that has it's own forum. Go ahead, give it a try.

We don't actually need to...when you're running the Forum AND it's being policed you both know "WHO they are' AND have the opportunity to censure them if and when issues arise.

In general, anonymity protects the 'weak' ...or rather...protects the [potential] victim which is a PLUS.  Unfortunately it also empowers the troll and/or bully.

Win some....lose some...

on Jul 26, 2014

Cauldyth

And yeah, good question.  So why do Stardock forums allow anonymity?

 

 

For older customers (I believe pre-Impulse) , they can see the customer name associated with the account.

 

A big reason I don't use my real name, is because it is very similar with someone more well known, especially during my younger years.  I've also received some harassment before.


Also, as bad as trolling can be, the chilling effects that Brad is advocating for here would be much, much worse.  This is the reason these policies have failed in any democracy.  Freedom of speech is important, even if folks abuse it.

 

Cauldyth

Oh, I absolutely believe you.  I have a male friend who decided, on a whim, to play a female character in Everquest back when it first came out.  The number of creepy borderline stalkers who came out of the woodwork was eye-opening.

Glad to hear nothing worse happened with your incident!

 

 

Why is that creepy?  About 10-20% of players do this. 

on Jul 26, 2014

myfist0

Of all the woman I know, one played some stupid game called farmville or something, where every guy I know plays video games, so, let's be honest, who's the target audience of a company that want's to be successful?
If some woman wants to start a game company to make a product that I would think wouldn't have a hope in hell of competing with one designed for men as the target audience, all the power to her. I would wonder how many men were on that payroll though. But, if I was designing a game, I would have a direction in place and hire to fill the rolls of the work needing to get that goal accomplished. The last thing I would want on my team is someone trying to inject their ideology and then play the victim when I toss them out on their ass. I don't care if it is religion, gender ideology's, or whatever else is supposedly 'politically incorrect'.
To many times I have seen uproars on the webs about people changing the general direction a game has had for a long time and build up many followers.

1. Farmville isn't a game I would like but it has been massively inarguably successful. It is declining in membership now but still being updated from what I have read. Your friend may be playing Farmville 2 these days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmville_2 At its peak Farmville had more players than WoW and they were making a fortune on in game purchases. The thing was such a big deal that when Steve Jobs was still alive and demoing stuff he demoed Farmville, in case people might worry they wouldn't be able to play it on Apple gear. http://venturebeat.com/2011/07/05/even-with-half-the-users-zyngas-farmville-made-more-money-than-ever-before-in-q1/

2. What you are saying about women in games is really different from the experiences I have had, but I believe you that you only know one woman who plays video games. I know a lot of them, but that doesn't mean you do. I am guessing you aren't much of an MMO player if you have only known one woman who plays computer and video games in general. There are several MMOs which have in the past been reported to have over 50% female players. UO was reported to have about 51% at the peak of that game.  It wouldn't surprise me if LotRO is majority female these days but here is what data I can give you at the moment about computer and videogame demographics in the last 5 years. This is from 2009: http://blog.rjmetrics.com/2009/06/24/who-plays-mmos-an-analysis-of-mmorpg-player-demographics-and-mmorpg-player-stereotypes/

Fantastic and more recent data here, but warning, slow-loading pdf file: http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf

And a non-pdf summary also from esa that loads a lot faster but leaves a lot out:

http://www.theesa.com/facts/index.asp 

Announcements from Microsoft and Nintendo here:

http://www.geekwire.com/2013/dudes-38-xbox-users-female-51-kids/

There's some argument about precise figures as to the percent of gamers that are female, but the general agreement that it is somewhere in the 40-50% range sounds about right to me on the games I play most. Right now that would be a terraformer MMO, an MMORPG, and an MMORTS for the online ones.

3. A woman starting a game company might not necessarily aim a game at women. I wouldn't. Not because it's impossible to succeed. It's not, as the Farmville example demonstrates. I just don't happen to believe that men and women have entirely different interests. There are plenty of games which appeal to both. I also feel men are perfectly capable of making games that appeal to girls. In fact, they already do. We will have to agree to disagree on this point. That's my opinion, and it's different from yours. We're both entitled to them. Why do you think a woman wouldn't hire men, or am I not understanding your payroll remark? Were you saying that, or are you saying she would have to hire mostly or all men, or neither of those things?

4. I do agree with you that changing the direction of a game or game series does often upset players. A game I really loved once did that, and 90% of the players quit within 1 month. It took them a long time to get players back, and if you went on an MMORPG today and announced in chat that you were a player there when that happened, you would get immediate pms from people who are *still* angry about it. I might be one of them.

If you ever want to see an online game where women are common, try a terraformer or an MMORTS right now. Pretty much any game with sandbox tendencies would work too.

note: edited to correct two typos

on Jul 26, 2014

I don't understand why this is a problem. I don't even know what "misogony" really means. Guess it depends on who you ask.

If it means that you treat women differently than men, then so what!?   That companys loss if they don't want a female programmer if they believe men are better. They should be allowed to do that. Their call.

 

Also, asking women for pics is nothing strange. Guys are like that.

on Jul 26, 2014

Campaigner

Also, asking women for pics is nothing strange. Guys are like that.

Do it here to a fellow member and I'll have your balls.  It's the equivalent of stalking and an invasion of privacy.

The word you need to research is 'misogyny'   Spell checker

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny 

Yes, even Wiki's definition will suffice.

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