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Published on October 21, 2013 By Frogboy In Elemental Dev Journals

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I was playing Galactic Civilizations II last night. I hadn’t played it in a very long time and was stunned by just how much…awesome it has in it.  That awesomeness didn’t come from the original design. It came from years and years of iteration and frankly, labors of love.

The problem I see with Legendary Heroes is that it’s really hard to do iteration like that.  After all, it’s technically Elemental: Fallen Enchantress – Legendary Heroes. It’s a mouth full.  No one calls GalCiv II “Twilight of the Arnor”. It’s just called GalCiv.

But Elemental got off to such a rocky start that for good or bad, we don’t really call it Elemental anymore.  If the quality and fandom that supports Legendary Heroes could somehow be applied to Elemental that would be great.  But it’s not. It’s barely applied to Fallen Enchantress.

Frankly, from a purely a branding perspective – i.e. the THING that people remember playing, we basically call it Legendary Heroes.  It’s just really hosed up.

Then you have the DLC situation.  The DLC for Legendary Heroes doesn’t just sell well. It sells insanely well. There’s a huge demand for it because the installed base of the game we call Legendary Heroes (but is really Elemental: Fallen Enchantress – Legendary Heroes) keeps growing.

I know some people don’t care about the name.  But the reality is, the single biggest thing holding LH back is the brand confusion.  I’ve seen people on various forums say that LH is probably the best fantasy 4X that is currently available (though Age of Wonders 3 is looking pretty awesome). 

So we have this great fantasy game that we have the budget to keep iterating on that is artificially held down because no one really knows what to call it.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Oct 21, 2013

Borg999

I honestly think the issue with the elemental name is in your head (I'm not trying to be mean or snarky here). The ghost of it''s release is still haunting your dreams, when everyone else has moved on.

But we are all saying pretty positive things so far, and you keep pushing back.

So what was the point of you post?

Are you looking for a solution? Sympathy? Justifying in your head why it's not selling as well as you like. Forming an excuse to not focus on it anymore?

 

I'm hoping someone will have some brilliant idea.

You can't call it Legendary Heroes. In fact, ther'es probably a game called that.

Fallen Enchantress is...ok but not great.

The default is to simply keep iterating Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes for the foreseable future until it becomes outdated and it'll be a stand-alone game. No sequels.

 

 

on Oct 21, 2013

You could come up with totally new name like Anthros and keep the old names as versions so..

Anthros: Elemental
Anthros: Fallen Enchantress
Anthros: Legendary Heroes

Or even make it...

War of Magic: Elemental
War of Magic: Fallen Enchantress
War of Magic: Legendary Heroes

That would minimize the Elemental name but help clarify the relationship between the games. 

on Oct 21, 2013

Frogboy


You can't call it Legendary Heroes. In fact, ther'es probably a game called that.

 

 

http://www.legendaryheroesgame.com/

 

Interestingly, their current front page announcement is "The Shade Countess joins the battlefield".  Shade Countess? Is that you Ceresa??

on Oct 21, 2013

Crastiloowa

Quoting Frogboy, reply 16

You can't call it Legendary Heroes. In fact, ther'es probably a game called that.

 

 

http://www.legendaryheroesgame.com/

 

Interestingly, their current front page announcement is "The Shade Countess joins the battlefield".  Shade Countess? Is that you Ceresa??

 

Ceresa would never be caught dead wearing such attire

on Oct 21, 2013

It is - "Elemental: Legendary Heroes".  (at least in my mind)

You saved the Elemental brand by giving away FE & LH, don't make that a waste.  Payed-for marketing goes nowhere near as far as the natural publicity from philanthropy, especially righting admitted wrongs.  You've admirably stuck to your guns thus far, don't stop now.  While FE's sales may not have been as substantial as LH's, it's your work on Fallen Enchantress that solidified your status as a contributor of quality to the genre in the public's eyes.  Steam is probably more responsible for the increase in sales than anything else.

Plus, the title "Elemental" lends itself to a uniquely expanding universe and interesting game mechanics much more than "Fallen Enchantress"(1 faction), or "Legendary Heroes"(generic).  The intertwining of opposing natural forces as the foundation for kingdoms of warring mages is good stuff!  We already have "'Heroes' of Might and Magic".  Now that you've walked through the gates that Ubisoft left wide open, learn from their mistakes too, and take the reigns!

Age of Wonders is more of a multiplayer war game than a kingdom development sim.  Differentiate!

Elemental was a brilliantly designed game that contributed a lot of fresh ideas to the genre.  Just how much originality was cut still blows my mind.  All it needed was polish and refinement - the products of some good back 'n forth with lay play-testers, and additional staff/time.  You've shared that many of the lessons learned during the development of Elemental directed you to implement a more streamlined and professional workflow for the game development side of your business, <this was the solution to Elemental's problems, not cutting everything that made it stand out.  FE & LH are "Civ + HoMM", "Elemental" was a new contender in the genre.  Now that the underlying game has been refined appropriately for consumer consumption, (and selling accordingly), the opportunity to distinguish the brand as something special is presenting itself again!

The best way to increase consumer confusion is through re-branding, the best way to solve it is through marketed education.

Stick to your guns!

 

 

 

Or there's..

 

"Ancient Civilizations"

 

 

 

Edit: Great post Kantok, just saw it.

on Oct 21, 2013

Frogboy



You can't call it Legendary Heroes. In fact, ther'es probably a game called that.
 

 Have you checked?  It might be worth finding out.  (FWIW, I've started calling it Legendary Heroes in everyday speak.) 

 



Frogboy

The default is to simply keep iterating Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes for the foreseable future until it becomes outdated and it'll be a stand-alone game. No sequels.
 

That's kinda what I figured would be the case.  I know FE:LH is a bit of a mouthful, but it might very well be the best that can be done for now.  Either that, or come up with an entirely new title for the next iteration (you'd obviously know better than I whether it'd be worth it). 

 

 

(By the by, I have to say Legendary Heroes is a fantastic game.  I think it's the first fantasy grand-strategy title I've truly enjoyed playing *and* has kept my attention since its release.  Kudos!) 

 

on Oct 21, 2013

If only you could just use the name legendary heroes, then you would be gold. It's a stand alone expansion, so no reason it can't stand entirely by itself.

on Oct 21, 2013

You could call it Draginol's Tales: Legendary Heroes.

on Oct 21, 2013

From a sales standpoint I'd say to be playful with the name. What "damage" there may be has already been done.

Be all "aw shucks" with a goofy grin while bringing up the name and just keep throwing out those DLC's and continuing the awesomeness. I'd be incredibly surprised if us consumers cared even half as much 'bout the name. We're simply greedy and want more.

Has there ever even been any confusion with the name? Like has someone not understood what was being spoken of? My friends and I all call it something different, with Elemental being more commonly used with everyone. Then we differ between Fallen Enchantress and Legendary Heroes.

Now that I'm done tellin' my gram-gram how to suck eggs......when's the next damned DLC?!?

on Oct 21, 2013

Elemental Prime.... (most games after all major expansions are out you add prime on the end....) ya thats all I got.   Arn't I useless... 

on Oct 21, 2013

I agree you can't keep calling it Fallen Enchantress, as it doesn't make since beyond that one game.

I do like the name Elemental, but it is a tad on the generic side when it comes to doing a Google search and whatnot.

I like the idea of sticking to War of Magic, somewhat. 

on Oct 21, 2013

How about World of Elemental or Hero's of Elemental.

on Oct 21, 2013

Go for Elemental II, and make it a great game. You Stardockians have learned how to make fantasy 4X now, and if it's great it will sell great, regardless of the name. The good thing is you keep the continuty, and saves the Elemental brand.

 

on Oct 21, 2013

I came in during the Fallen Enchantress beta and that's what I fell in love with.  That, to me, is the base game and LH is a (great) expansion for that.  Same with Sins.  I only play Rebellion now but I still think of it as Sins (of a Solar Empire). 

Do you have plans to do any more expansions or iterations that were as big as LH? If so (and I hope so), you don't want to keep running on your brand treadmill.

I get maybe dropping "Elemental" from the branding because, in a sense, it seems you released FE in spite of the first one's reception, but FE's success allowed you to make LH.  To me, Fallen Enchantress is the foundation of your success here.  Maybe I'm biased because I just like the name "Fallen Enchantress" the best. 

As an aside, campaign-wise, I almost feel like the titles are backwards.  FE's campaign focused more on small bands of (legendary) heroes in the East but LH's focused on the war against the Fallen Enchantress.

Whatever you call it, I'll probably play it. 

on Oct 21, 2013

Fallen Heroes: Enchantment of War 

just a little bit more confusion  

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