Brad Wardell's site for talking about the customization of Windows.
Published on June 5, 2013 By Frogboy In Elemental Dev Journals

With Legendary Heroes out, I can finally start reading how people are playing the “finished” game.  Kael’s gotten me tons of reports and I’ve started tackling them one by one.

I am hoping to have the first batch ready for the next update (perhaps as early as next week). But that won’t be the end of it.  I plan to take care of some low hanging fruit strategy suggestions first and then go on and deal with the more challenging aspects that will require a lot more play testing to do.

Stay tuned!

In the meantime, check out 8 out of 8’s video impressions of Legendary Heroes:


Comments (Page 5)
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on Jun 24, 2013

I'm seriously disappointed if fixing known exploits/bugs is a low priority just because it's a single player game. That's just sloppy.

on Jun 24, 2013

Brad, you guys need to create a game where you're a game development studio. You'd have to allocate resources to different areas (marketing, developers, etc.), design the game, communicate to forum users, etc. Would remind me of the DLC Quest game on Steam.

It seems to me that creating and supporting a game is just like playing one- you have limited resources and need to find the best way to optimize them.

on Jun 24, 2013

Lord Reliant
Brad, you guys need to create a game where you're a game development studio. You'd have to allocate resources to different areas (marketing, developers, etc.), design the game, communicate to forum users, etc. Would remind me of the DLC Quest game on Steam.

I can't wait to see how they implement people bitching and moaning on the forums over every little thing you say.

 

on Jun 24, 2013

Mistwraithe
serious exploits should certainly be fixed as a pretty high priority IMO

I think it depends on the type of exploit. I really couldn't care less about custom faction exploits, for example. No claims are made about them being balanced. If you find them unbalanced, don't use them.

I don't care too much about "exploits" which essentially revolve around playing the game optimally. There can be an issue with the AI using them properly, but in theory that can be programmed in.

I care quite a lot about exploits which reduce the suspension of disbelief, or seem broken. For example, not requiring resources other than gold when upgrading unit size doesn't seem right, and encourages an obvious exploit where you build smaller units and then upgrade them. Queuing pioneers to exploit population growth also seems odd.

I also care quite a lot about exploits which seem so powerful that they make the rest of the game pointless. Using a horse to steal Insane loot from undefended lairs isn't particularly against the spirit of the game and it doesn't break any game mechanic. But it's too powerful, and has odd effects (like higher monster difficulty levels actually making the game easier when using this tactic). Hopefully this will be fixed in the next patch.

This does leave a lot of grey area, but in general it's only the big, suspension of disbelief destroying exploits, that seem to make other parts of the game pointless, which I really object to.

on Jun 24, 2013


Frogboy, I.. Don't really have much to add to your OP, other than.. Keep up the good work. Also if you are working on the Elemental RPG (Baulder's Gate style) and Galciv 3, or for the love of all things holy, a campaign for Sins (yeah, yeah I know, sandbox.. but I want to know so badly.. who are they running from!?), feel free to pm me some details, you'd have my full and undivi ded attention.

 

Now onto a comment about single player exploits.. I think you should disable loading while in a game, unless of course you are playing as the Oracle. After all, she is the only one who can see into the future right? I mean I just lost a huge battle that could mean ill tidings for my entire kingdom, and a dragon just ate one of my key food-producing towns! Damn, if only I had seen this coming, oh.. I don't know, ten days ago?  Well, it is a good thing that my scribe keeps a daily record of the on-goings of his kind, just, and loving sovereign.. Scribe!! *scribble..scribble* Take this note to the Doc, and tell him to take it (queue breaking fourth wall) back to me!

 

I know of quite a few exploits in the game, I just don't use them. Except pretending I am the Oracle no matter what character I play. But be warned dear reader.. Knowing the future is to be trapped by it!

 

 

on Jun 24, 2013

Frogboy


I used to play for PGL and used to be in diamond league in Starcraft and was the top ranked player in Total Annihilation's Boneyards's service.  I like to think I can play.

Only Diamond leauge? You should be at least Grandmaster, and play LH 24/7 every day so we don't have any bugs or exploits! 

No JK, you guys are doing fine, but some people can't help but want everything and your soul

 

on Jun 24, 2013

Rath3130


Frogboy, I.. Don't really have much to add to your OP, other than.. Keep up the good work. Also if you are working on the Elemental RPG (Baulder's Gate style) and Galciv 3, or for the love of all things holy, a campaign for Sins (yeah, yeah I know, sandbox.. but I want to know so badly.. who are they running from!?), feel free to pm me some details, you'd have my full and undivi ded attention.

 

Now onto a comment about single player exploits.. I think you should disable loading while in a game, unless of course you are playing as the Oracle. After all, she is the only one who can see into the future right? I mean I just lost a huge battle that could mean ill tidings for my entire kingdom, and a dragon just ate one of my key food-producing towns! Damn, if only I had seen this coming, oh.. I don't know, ten days ago?  Well, it is a good thing that my scribe keeps a daily record of the on-goings of his kind, just, and loving sovereign.. Scribe!! *scribble..scribble* Take this note to the Doc, and tell him to take it (queue breaking fourth wall) back to me!

 

I know of quite a few exploits in the game, I just don't use them. Except pretending I am the Oracle no matter what character I play. But be warned dear reader.. Knowing the future is to be trapped by it!

 

 

 

I am not the reader.

on Jun 24, 2013

jonasadolphson
the seed for the RNG should've be taken from the save file so as battles and drops are repeatable

+1, I actually subscribed to these forums initially just to post a thread on this topic.  The subject may not get much light, but it has some strong supportive arguments.

 

Rath3130
I think you should disable loading while in a game, unless of course you are playing as the Oracle. After all, she is the only one who can see into the future right?

Hah, fun idea.  +2

 

Rath3130
Except pretending I am the Oracle no matter what character I play.

The GUI propels me to do this^.

on Jul 01, 2013

I still find it incredibly frustrating to watch the computer run up to danger areas (say, right beside Lord of the Flame and build an outpost, and then have said Lord walk around the outpost to harass me.  I don't know why this happens sometimes as I had a game just happen like this where there were no resources at all near the built outpost.  I certainly can't take a Deadly monster that early in the game, yet the computer keeps on building near them so they roam and wreak havoc.  At least if I EVER saw them attack the computer's stuff I would feel it was just the computer being dumb and laugh at them dying, but to have it come after me, walking past outposts and pioneers and armies of the computer along the way, it feels like I'm being punished alone for the computer's bad decisions.

on Jul 01, 2013

AzraelSteel

I still find it incredibly frustrating to watch the computer run up to danger areas (say, right beside Lord of the Flame and build an outpost, and then have said Lord walk around the outpost to harass me.  I don't know why this happens sometimes as I had a game just happen like this where there were no resources at all near the built outpost.  I certainly can't take a Deadly monster that early in the game, yet the computer keeps on building near them so they roam and wreak havoc.  At least if I EVER saw them attack the computer's stuff I would feel it was just the computer being dumb and laugh at them dying, but to have it come after me, walking past outposts and pioneers and armies of the computer along the way, it feels like I'm being punished alone for the computer's bad decisions.

Irritates me no end too.

on Jul 01, 2013

The AI is still as of 1.2 targeting caravans with spells like wither.

One suggested idea: make caravans immune magic.   Will keep the AI from doing this.  Either that or make the AI think caravans are immune magic.

 

I do think the AI is playing better game overall though.    AI raiding seems to be more advanced,using throwaway champs to raid (where you don't like them anyway, more injuries is fine) is probably a good idea.

 

on Jul 02, 2013

I wish there was a way they could use steamworks to watch how people play and then incorporate the strategies into the AI.

on Jul 03, 2013

Feedback:

Something I notice a lot vs AI in LH, they usually go for different targets with random scattered armies here and there, but rarely do that "doom" stack appear with the Sovereign. Is it possible to make doom stacks more common? As in they will only declare when they have one ready, and then proceed towards capitol while of course sending out those harass parties. I remember in FE vanilla that on Insane I got such huge stacks sent against me (20+ sized full army (9)), and I had to sparely use mana and resources etc. to beat them because they were so big and the challenge was upped a bit. 

on Jul 07, 2013

Frogboy


developers are absolutely clueless about how to play games, let alone write AI for them

I used to play for PGL and used to be in diamond league in Starcraft and was the top ranked player in Total Annihilation's Boneyards's service.  I like to think I can play.

However, writing "good" AI for a game like this is very difficult because players often play the game in drastically different ways and often times, spells and other game changing effects are added that I'm not familiar with (the tornado spell for instance).

It's not a matter of knowing how to play the games. It's about making the choice between designing a game with many many different strategies that causes the AI to have blind spots or one with a very very narrow range of player decisions.

 

I wasn't really addressing the idea of "good" AI, but rather competent AI as it relates to the problems with these type of games that people described in earlier posts 

 

This isn't about you or Elemental, but really any symmetrical game where one side can get an advantage... It's just mathematically impossible to reward the early game without making the mid/late game one-sided.

People keep wishing for something that is simply not going to happen unless symmetry is gone or the AI is competent.

 

when all the "broken" 4X games can work fine in a multiplayer setting, I think it's pretty clear that AI is the weak part

 

I think the balance issues with pretty much all 4X games give a pretty good indication of how well the developers understand the strategies, but that isn't even the point. Even if people do learn how to play 4X games, they still don't know how to write strong AI for complex problems

on Jul 07, 2013

Alstein

The AI is still as of 1.2 targeting caravans with spells like wither.

One suggested idea: make caravans immune magic.   Will keep the AI from doing this.  Either that or make the AI think caravans are immune magic.

 

I do think the AI is playing better game overall though.    AI raiding seems to be more advanced,using throwaway champs to raid (where you don't like them anyway, more injuries is fine) is probably a good idea.

 

This is a really good catch (the caravans). 

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