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After we complete upcoming expansion pack for Elemental: Fallen Enchantress (which we expect to announce NEXT WEEK) we have to do some hard thinking.  Specifically, what do we do next? After some trials and tribulations we’ve put together what is, in effect, a Master of Magic style engine (and before someone flips out, I’m not saying FE is just like MOM, I am saying that at this stage, our *game engine* is finally capable of actually making that game which is obviously was not capable of in 2010).

But first, let’s look at the history…

Once upon a time…

After Galactic Civilizations II I wanted to do a fantasy strategy game.  I wrote up a brief treatment and had our lead artist draw a mockup of what it should look like:

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Basically, I wanted Master of Magic with updated graphics and multiplayer. 

During this time, Stardock had the opportunity to publish two games – Sins of a Solar Empire and Demigod. Two opportunities we couldn’t pass up. Meanwhile, Impulse was starting to really take off too.

Now, we’re a small company. REALLY small. People are always shocked at how tiny Stardock is. We might possibly be the oldest independent game studio left (20 years old this year) that still regularly produces new games but the entire enterprise is less than 60 people and that includes our main business – consumer software (Multiplicity, Start8, WindowBlinds, Fences, etc.). 

What that meant,  back in 2008 is that the team that made Galactic Civilizations had to be spread out to help out on Sins, Demigod and Impulse. To do Elemental, we hired up.

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Elemental (and at this point, it was just called Elemental) was going to be a pretty straight forward game. Build cities, capture shards, learn magic, research tech and conquer the world.

Now, Stardock’s game studio didn’t run like a normal game studio. That is, there was really no such thing as a producer or a designer. You either coded or you did art. We had titles but they had no real meaning.  Design was handled by the person who was implementing an “area” of the game (for example, GalCiv II did not have a visual tactical battle display in its design, the person who was assigned to code “resolution outcome” wrote that).

And we had a lot of ideas.  Why stop with Master of Magic’s design elements when you can also throw in Magic the Gathering concepts, Total War, Civilization IV, Ultima, etc.

Slowly, things began to morph as people had more and more ideas get presented.

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The spell system got more sophisticated.

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The tactical combat design scope grew.

And the reality was that all this stuff just didn’t mesh together.  At one point, we even had underground dungeons.

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So when Elemental came out, it was extremely buggy (we had spread ourselves too thin – we had no redundancy) and the individual components just didn’t flow together.

Fall From Heaven

When we looked at what went wrong with Elemental it became clear that we were just wearing too many hats. No one owned the design. No one owned the look of it. No one owned the engine design. We needed to bring someone in who would own the project and enforce their will.

That’s what Kael, the designer of Fall From Heaven was able to do.

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Kael (Derek Paxton) didn’t just have great game design skills, he was a senior project manager at Novell.

Originally, we had planned to do two expansion packs:

War of Magic – Fallen Enchantress and War of Magic – Forge of the Overlord.  But it was decided that we should do a more ambitious overhaul to the base game and this became Elemental: Fallen Enchantress.

Fallen Enchantress

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So with Fallen Enchantress, we ended up with a pretty good fantasy strategy game (if you don’t already have it, GET IT!). We have lots of ideas on how to improve it but the important thing is that we now have a fantasy strategy game engine that is capable of doing whatever type of game we’d like.

And that’s where we’re at. What do we do next? I can tell you one thing, it will not have the word “Elemental” in it.  Why? Check this out:  [Google Search Results]

That isn’t to say we’d scrap all our work and start over with a brand new design and recreate the millions of dollars in art assets.  But it’s not going to be tied to Elemental. But this assumes that our players want us to continue making this style of strategy game at all.

After all, there are some exciting fantasy strategy games in the offing – Age of Wonders 3 I suspect will be announced soon and Eador: Masters of the Broken World looks excellent. Are there enough people who want Stardock to keep making fantasy strategy games of this type to justify that effort?

[Quick aside: What do I mean by “this type of strategy game”?]

Personally, there are two key differentiators in fantasy strategy games that help me define what sub-genre they belong to:

  1. Am I building an empire via starting new cities on a largely empty world (ala Master of Magic)
  2. Am I fighting battles strategically (Fall from Heaven) or fighting them tactically (ala Master of Magic)

And specifically, the question is: Making fantasy strategy games that involve tactical battles, city building and RPG elements? That’s the niche I think we have here. I don’t think we’ve nailed down the perfect blend yet but that’s what time and experience exist for.

And that is what we’d like to hear from you.  Do you like what we’re doing enough to keep Should we continue it forward (and don’t answer “Make Fall From Heaven” its future isn’t tied to this). Also, before someone screams GalCiv III the future of GalCiv is not tied to anything we do here.

Go here to answer:

https://www.elementalgame.com/journals

Discuss in the comments.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jan 30, 2013

FE still has a lot of untapped potential even if the newest expansion better integrates the rpg and 4X gameplay. Why start over when you can build FE into a real classic? 

on Jan 30, 2013

I've been playing, critiquing, and enjoying since the EWOM beta.  I've put hundreds of hours into this game & expect the expansion to keep my interest going for a long time.  You have a winning combination here which you can keep coming back to for years. 

I think the real question here is - does the team still have the desire to keep this game going?  As long as you guys are having fun it'll show up in your games & that's what drives ggod games.  It sounds like you have several projects already on the drawing board (GalCiv 3 and Fall from Heaven?) so don't spread yourself too thin or try to expand the team too fast & lose that magic.   

on Jan 30, 2013

Regardless of your decision, be it to expand upon Elemental, make a new IP, make GalCivIII, or whatever, the one thing I always look for in empire building games, and rarely get is the feeling that my cities are not only glorified troop factories, like in Sword of the Stars, which is TOO focused on the war side, I want to build, just like in GalCiv and FE, I had the option to make war, but I was perfectly able to be peaceful and stay that way.

(Sins was more war oriented, but I still liked it, specially when I managed to get my starting system in lock down with 4 starbases around the star, filled with bombers. )

on Jan 31, 2013


I would like to see FE become more Tactical and RPG oriented within a strategic world. What do I mean by this?

More Tactical

Moving across the map is okay, building cities is okay, but the tactical battles is what really grabs me. They could be improved with more diverse maps, LOS, city improvements, terrain and tactics that would require more strategy to win and challenge the player.

Diverse Maps - i.e. forest maze, river barriers, fighting in a small town or village or castle

City Improvements - moat adds a water barrier, city gates channel an attack and shield defenders within the walls

Terrain - blocks Line of Sight, elevated terrain gives a bonus, swampy terrain blocks heavily encumbered units

Tactics - flank attacks, more spells, move units outside the LOS of the enemy to surprise them with a flank attack, etc.

Crafted Encounters that take strategy to solve, not brute force.

RPG Oriented

I would like to see the option for your sovereigns and champions to enter dungeons or ruins unaccompanied by their large armies. For champions to be able to switch weapons in combat or take advantage or more special maneuvers attacks. I would like to see time oriented quests that can have a major affect on game play at the strategic level if they are not completed. I would like to see quests that can affect your relations with other sovereigns.

 

on Jan 31, 2013

Glazunov1
Evolving FE.  I still enjoy MoM a lot, but doing a newer version of what's been done before is only the thing to do when you don't feel you can do better.  Your team has plenty of skill, the memory capabilities of computers are far greater, and you have different ideas.  Go for it.

 

...But fix diplomacy before you do.

 

 

on Jan 31, 2013

GalCiv III!  You know it has its own subreddit, right?

Also, please keep working on FE as is. That is keep patching it, keep releasing DLC and expansions, and please make expansions matter, like they did in GalCiv. The game has a lot of potential and you guys can make it into something really really great. But you have to invest time in it.

PS:

cugeldaclever
...But fix diplomacy before you do.

Please do this!

on Jan 31, 2013

If you can't make Fall From Heaven III, make something really similar.  Fall From Heaven got just about everything right for a 4X Fantasy game except AI (godawful) and balance (nonexistent).  

 

 

Playing FE, the best parts of the game are when I'm exploring lairs, completing quests, gradually building the strongest champions and armies possible and taking on wildlands.   The worst elements are the standard civ-building stuff (bare-bones and soulless) and dealing with the AI.  FFH had the excellent empire-creating engine from CIV IV, where cities themselves were characters as much (and often more) than an hero unit, and an AI which was at least be semi-sensible in diplomacy.  

on Jan 31, 2013

I agree with what has already been said before, keep on polishing FE. I have found one of the more interesting things is the story thread between the Elemental and Galactic Civilizations universes.

on Jan 31, 2013

It is sometimes hard to understand what your words mean Frogboy! I remember you talking about "only balancing" during the beta's while core functionality (in form of code) still has been added.

So - this time - if "evolving Fallen Enchantress's game play" includes lots of new code (not only XML-Tweaks that work around the inherent blandness of some core functionalities) - go for it and tie the game together to feel of one piece. Also please don't forget how essential good single player balancing is to this niche you are trying to fulfil, so if there is a scissor always try to have rock and paper as alternative paths (or at least decisions should mean sacrificing one path in favor of the other - fight no-brainers).

 

 

on Jan 31, 2013

F#@( MoM!! 

Be Stardock in the here and now and build on the great foundation you've already laid.  You have a great thing going.

What exactly are you asking, Frogboy?

Why F#@( with it?

(Pardon my French)

on Jan 31, 2013

Glazunov1
...But fix diplomacy before you do.

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

on Jan 31, 2013

I'm torn. On the other hand, of course I want FE to evolve, I see a lot of potential in it.

However, is there too much excess baggage attached to FE already? I'm not in love with all the systems of FE, and even as a fan it has a little bit of a stigma on it. I think another non-Elemental game might be a good idea. I like the idea of taking a completely different approach on the very same genre with your team that has learned a lot from Elemental.

Don't give up on the genre though.

on Jan 31, 2013

Basically, I wanted Master of Magic with updated graphics and multiplayer.

This!

I like FE in general.

I miss the variety MoM had. Your wizard (which was BTW NOT moving on the playing field, which is a good thing I think) had a great many choices on spell books and traits, all influencing the game and the way you played in a different way. Also the characteristics that came with each magic type (e.g. if you had lots of Death magic you got that strategic spell that revived killed units so you had even more zombies, Fire magic had many destructive spells, if you had only a few books in each category you didn't get the high level spells etc.)

Then there were all the summoning spells in MoM, I really miss that in FE. Basilisk, Behemoth, Angel, Giants, etc. All the typical fantasy creatures were present. Then there was crafting, and spell research was also one of my favorite things.

What I like from FE that isn't there in MoM: quests, the way heroes level up (skills etc.), research in general, but I really think something like MoM spell research should also be there. Everyone always seems to have the same spells....

oh and I really don't like my sovereign to move around, I preferred MoM's capital with tower/castle idea!

 

cheers, 

on Jan 31, 2013


We have lots of ideas on how to improve it but the important thing is that we now have a fantasy strategy game engine that is capable of doing whatever type of game we’d like.

This is quite a strange poll. If you have lots of ideas how to improve FE, then just go ahead! The concept is great already, and there are many promising directions to explore. On the contrary, I am not sure that there is enough room for an independent  Fall from Heaven 3. I see FE as its legitimate heir already.

It is the second half of the sentence that bothers me. The game engine is still full of bugs and obviously needs quite a lot of work to make it look "finished". Please get it right rather than ship another few half-done games.

on Jan 31, 2013

I'd expect a FFH3 game to be very different from FE.   I'd also like to see such a game, if it ever happened, look at some of the modmods of FFH2 and what they did right.  There were plenty of major improvements from base FFH2 in a couple of them.

 

I just don't want a MoM clone, as that idea's time has come and gone.

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