1. To WebGizmo's #29:

Sorry, but as Frogboy wrote: "So here's the deal: If you produce stuff then good for you. If you don't produce stuff, then you are either reliant on the good will of others to produce things for you or you will have to pay evil capitalists to labor on your behalf to produce the product, good, or service you want."

Seems to me it does apply, even without the quote.

2. "We now live in a world where people have turned the concept of greed on its head: People who demand others labor for them for free are not greedy. But people who ask to be compensated for their labor are. That's insane and yet that is what we see over and over.
That sense of entitlement is what leads others to insult those who produce things for free if they don't like what has been produced. There isn't even the semblance of understanding that what they are insulting was produced out of good will. This is because people believe they are entitled to what others labor to produce for free."

Frogboy, This is a brilliant blog! Unfortunately, the ingrates are unlikely to understand what you wrote (much less agree with it). It's time to do away with the entitlement and the whining "I deserve"-ers. Nothing is free.

Folks, read what Robert A. Heinlein wrote about VALUE in "Starship Troopers". It's a wonderful story (although much maligned by "The Entitled") and the analyses regarding value and citizenship should be required reading in our "schools".

That's it for me.   

Taze away bro. ...but first let me thank you and all the rest of the skinners for all of your hard work and generosity. On the lighter side, it's Friday, and it's noon somewhere in the world, so I think a beer, a shot, and a taze is in order. Have a good weekend! Cheers, f

I can't believe I actually went to neowhine to read that forum. What a bunch of brats. Brad, John: Aero Exec is a great skin that looks great on my PC. Keep it up and I'm looking forward to what's next.

Brad, my only complaint is this.....why did you wait so long to close that nonsensical outpouring of drivel????

Brad, I agree with you 100000000% on this.

Thank you FrogBoy for clarifying that to Chasbo. What people don't realize is that we are here because most people stopped responding to the whiners. They said it is not worth it. Whiners became almost the only voice out there. New generation read and hear this voice and started believing that is the truth.

Next time someone says ignore the idiocy and move on, remember that they are asking you to encourage and feed the idiocy to grow.

Problem is, jamespaulp "Stupid can't be fixed." I do understand you want to 'fix' it and believe responding will 'help' or 'teach'...but it won't. So, responding to it won't fix it, and you end up in an endless loop. It really is better to "just move on".

Dr J0622: I understand that the stupid cannot be fixed, but all I am saying is that it should not be allowed to become the prominent voice of the community. Not everyone is smart enough to understand the difference. Some may understand if pointed in the right direction.

Ever so correct, Fairyy....me too...

I was a tad bemused by the '50,000 retards lurking at Wincustomize' prompting a desire to give the commenter a mild 'slap' for insolence and insult....then realized he'd probably be a lost cause.

There are childish people everywhere, and perhaps more so on the Internet where perceptions of invincible anonymity empowers the idiotic and asinine.

I don't think Neowin is particularly any different to anywhere else, not really....

ya.. It really is.
1800 or so posts, member for years.

It's absolutely...an isolated case. I realize that for every troll, there are 1000 people downloading and appreciating.. so.. for that reason it makes sense to post new\available themes but frankly , its frustrating, to work ur rear off \ pay someone to work their a$$ off, give away the final product, only to be denegrated for your efforts. I share Brads point of view and continue to believe that this is again.. isolated..and insignificant.

Dr Jo622


Sorry....but I stand by what I said. But I won't get into it here and hijack the thread.

I'm not going to comment on the second part of the article because I've no idea what happened there but I have to disagree on the first. What Apple is doing is... well, it's lame actually. Which is to say, yeah it's perfectly legal, and they might even have a "justification" for that, but at the end of the day they're just milking more money out of customers, and screwing early adopters.

The update to Apple TV is free (and it's more significant), and MS somehow managed to give away for free a major new version of its Zune firmware to anyone with an old Zune. Even if you assume that there was a reason why apple couldn't include these programs at launch (probably not), and that it required more work and resources to add them, considering how much apple makes on each of these, they could've showed appreciation to their customers and released it for free to everybody.

Everything I've been reading lately points to one simple thing - Jobs's head is getting a bit too big for his turtleneck, simple as that.

Ahh, frogboy's on a rant...

First of all I agree that caustic remarks concerning a skin are a disservice to the community as a whole. However negative comments are not necessarily caustic, there needs to be a distinction because negative comments are needed so long as they are contructive in nature.

That said, business is not all about greed and making money all the time.
Sometimes losing money in one area of your business can generate gains in another, you have to look at the big picture. Frogboy saying people wanting free skins are non-capitalist hippies is both funny and sad at the same time. The original customer base of Object Desktop/Windowblinds for the most part relied on free content created by the community, this simple fact was and is at the very core of the product. Now that frogboy isn't making enough money those customers are now a bunch of non-capitalist hippies. LOL.

I have a feeling if you turn skins into ringtones, where you pay for every little thing you download Stardock stands to lose a lot of money on licensing. It might be possible if they had close to 100% market saturation... Stardock has a vested interest in keeping the community alive and there customers happy, if they have to hire professional skinners to make some free skins for the community to do so, it seems like it would be a good idea. The idea behind Master skins is fine as long as there is a good balance between free content available and charged content. If it gets to the point where all of the good content is charged, then I think you stand to lose a good portion of the community.

Frogboy, have you ever stopped to think that the reason for the increase in caustic remarks might stem from the fact the users(non-skinners who pay you for your product) in your community are not satisfied and perhaps even frustrated. Personally I like the wood skin, it is nice to have something that is not so OS-ish, SF-ish, glass-ish to use once in a while. However I too have been frustrated with the amount of free content that meets my tastes lately. But then again I'm probably just another non-capitalist hippie who just happened to have purchased your product in between my rampant binges of downloading illegally hacked warez(sarcasm for those who didn't catch that).

Frogboy, what we really want to know is where you stand on this.
Do you think all skins should be charged for like ringtones?
or
Do you believe that Stardock has a repsonsibility to provide content for there customers, either directly or indirectly that their customers want to use?

Because that is the real issue, Stardock has sold us a product that allows us to skin Windows.
Does Stardock's repsonsibility end there, are we on our own when it comes to finding content?
I am rather confused, do you feel it is not in Stardock best interest to make sure their users have skins? If so why bother running this site for that matter, I would assume that Stardock does think it is important, but then what's up with saying customers should be happy with whatever Stardock decides to throw their way because they are due nothing.

Which is it? Are customers due nothing, or does Stardock providing free skins for their customers serve both themselves and their customers? If it is the later, and customers don't feel they are being served properly is that the customers fault or Stardocks?

Any fool can get money, a smart person does it in a way that all parties benefit and are satisfied.

A customer is someone who has traded money for some good or service. They are due what the two parties agreed upon. It is not a relationship of master and supplicant but a relationship of equals who enter into a voluntary trade.

As for the rest of your comment, you make a lot of claims and insinuations that essentially require the reader to assume you know best.  I am not willing to grant you that premise unless you are willing to demonstrate a background that makes a reasonable case that you know what you're talking about.

Moreover, you seem to have read a lot more into what was written than was ever stated or implied.

My commenti n #59 articulates my position as succinctly as I can.

 

I agree with that definition, but would you say that the availablility of quality skins free of charge is implied or not? And really who gives a crap about the legality of it anyway. It is not about what you can get away with, it should be about making sure all parties are happy with the arrangement. What it should come down to is...

Is Stardock intrested in keeping it's customers happy or not, even if doing so entails a little extra work outside of the "contract" with the customer, even if that work has additional costs that Stardock will have to cover?


Uhm... most of my comments were questions, and I apoligize if the ones that weren't sounded like I was stating them as fact. They are my opinions only.

I am truly curious though if you think the direction of the product should be like that of ringtones, or if you think having a constant influx of free content available to customers is a priority. Obviously my preference is the quality free content model, but I think knowing exactly where Stardock stands on free content for the community goes a long ways towards hedging peoples expectations and in turn can result in less hurt feelings and flames(once again just my opinion). Really it would be alot simpler if Windowblinds shipped with a pack of skins, and other skin packs were just sold with no community... Not better necessarily just simpler. Due to the availablity of all of the free skins, I do think people get the impression they are part of the "package" so to speak, at least that was my impression when I first bought OD. I don't think pointing fingers at the customers helps anything, if customers are upset and flaming the boards, how did they get that way? Why are they upset? If people feel they are entitled to something that Stardock has no intention of giving them, why do they feel entitled and how did this miscommunication occur? Stardock owns the product and controls these boards, responsibility starts and stops with Stardock. I am not talking about legal responsibility I am talking about professionalism. Yes these are only my opinions, but I honestly don't see how anything gets fixed by pointing fingers.

I'm always...have always been curious as to why it is that people seem to want to offer directions to/for Stardock's business-model.  Would not that be better left to the Principals of Stardock themselves?

Perhaps much of this stems from 'recent' arrivees to the world of skinning....ones who missed the long-running 'symbiotic' relationship that skinnables [Stardock's in particular] and skinners have had... both developing and evolving ....arriving together to where we see ourselves now.

No-one actually said "this is how it is...and how it's going to be", [though I must admit Frogboy has been steersman somewhat, particularly with our Community site here [Wincustomize]].  Premium [paid-for] skins vs. free ones was hot debate long ago [Customize.org, for one]...before the current 'Master Skin' commercial option was made available here.

 

Jeffrey Bombard...talking about 'customers are upset'....you'd really need to define exactly who and about what/why as that is such a vapid generalization it cannot be responded to...

I will say. I have been a Stardock customer for many years.

Within that time I have gotten more than I paid for in the way of: Programs that have offered me countless hours of activities, My desktop always has an awesome new look, Became part of a great online community and made many friends.I have well received my $$ worth many times over.

We here have never seen Brad and Stardock as "the corporate" entity grabbing at our cash, We see them as our friends who build us great Programs and skins and we offer them compensation for their time and hard work.

Brad and Stardock have always gone above and beyond, to make the Skinning community feel like a family.(and not just the folks here either, their influence's are numerous and spread over many many skinning and customization sites).

When my mom passed my friends here at WC and Stardock spent many hours of their own time talking with me and chatting via the forums and irc. They were not paid nor was I pushed to purchase any programs etc, instead they offered hope, support and friendship.

This is by no means some faceless,cold,money grubbing corporate community. Funny thing is, you don't even have to be a S.D. customer to be a part of it.