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Farming

I'm not liking the farming mechanic.  It seemed like a good idea on paper but in practice, it's just tedious and exploitive.  Here's how I'd like to see it work:

image

Some planets would have a Arable land tile including all starting planets.  Building on these tiles produces food.

The tech tree would have a path for players who want to get the most out of those resources to get a lot of food.  The arable land resource be destructable -- you can destroy it (like you can any resource btw) to put something else there.   This would make food take its rightful place as an important strategic resource rather than one that is simply produced by min/maxing.

What are your thoughts?


Comments (Page 3)
on Feb 13, 2018

In 2 raw production was based on population 1 per 1. High population above 20 billion caused severe approval penalties. 

Farming controled population. It wasnt global, so the planet that wanted higher population had to have the farm. For each.level added by the farm it added a billion population.

on Feb 13, 2018

Some other thoughts.

My planets seem to get enough pop cap with one or two cities and I can get that done by the Age of War. Farm tech beyond that isn't all that great since I don't need the food and often don't have the resources anyways.

I'd like to see farm tech in the Age of Ascension or maybe even earlier focus on changing the types of food grown to add to your manufacturing/research/weapons/soldering ect rather than the amount of food grown. Food distribution trees should be replaced with advanced city designs that would not increase pop cap but add different bonus like I suggested for farms. This would add more thought to where you put farms and cities beyond +pop bonuses.

I love the different tech trees you get on races and especially the special buildings they can sometimes build. I think its the aquatic races that unlock different hydroponic farm tech and would like to see that change to be more distinctive from the standard trees other than hydroponic farms produce 3 base food.

Overall the change proposed by the OP feels like planet development would have farms removed and the tiles instead used for more of the same- factories or maybe research labs.

on Feb 13, 2018

I like farms the way they are, but they should be easier to build:

Farms that give a Flat food bonus should NOT cost Monsatium.

Only farms that give a Multiplier food bonus should cost Monsatium.

on Feb 13, 2018

Yes but the current system is hampering the AI. Again abstracting (most) of the farming involved... Truly simplifies the issue of AI which now just needs to think about placing City hugs and grabbing farm techs so it can build bigger or better cities.

Notably, to support "tall" empire building, those farm techs could unlock bigger bonuses to existing cities as well... Possibly through upgrades . 

 

If so empire have expanded or knows it's smaller in terms of colonies than the average empire for the last 20 turns, it could priortize techs that upgrade it's existing cities and such .

on Feb 13, 2018

Go4Celerity

Place holder.  (I have an idea,  but am on my phone)

I like the Cities and Farms, but not how they are working.

My Idea:

  • Farms build themselves, they do so on unterraformed tiles after a food deficit is achieved.
  • Nothing requires food as a resource "payment"
  • Food is a soft cap for population, when pop is greater than food you have the deficit.
  • Bread Basket planets and the planet where the deficit is occurring will be more likely to have farms appear, Precursor worlds less likely
  • The basic farm may be upgraded as usual once it has spawned
  • Create an Agriculture Improvement class with Farming bonuses and assign the title to this line of buildings to separate Food from directly effecting population.
  • Make Monsotium Deposit requisite improvements advantageous options rather than tech tree roadblocks, possibly with short spurs on the tech tree to offer even better Monsotiom-reliant developments.
  • Use Gauntlets idea for base food based on fractions of planet class

 

on Feb 13, 2018

Thematically: I would like to think that "food" is a solved problem for advanced galactic civs of the future.

Strategically: if the only thing food does is limit your pop cap, that is not an "interesting choice" and the entire mechanism should be removed. Otherwise food needs to be useful for more than just one thing.

on Feb 13, 2018

I agree... I could see it impacting morale

on Feb 14, 2018

Yep, definitely food needs to impact on several things:

Population: Whichever you need to grow the population of whichever of the four species you are, I think the four "things" should work the same way or as close to it as possible without being too gamebreaking. The ultimate simplicity, of course, is to just have four types of farms for each of the species and have them produce food/Durantium/new person/whatever that race needs. This immediately does away with the possible curse of a galaxy with no Durantium or whatever. Surely if population and productivity is 1/1 all four species as I understand it, that seems a fair solution for Population growth.

Obviously, it might be better to buff up a certain species in a different way or there may (I've only played carbon) be an existing advantage in a different area for that species that compensates for slow population growth/population growth relying on something rarer than food, I just see this as the quickest way of solving that issue.

Morale: Hungry people aren't happy people. As morale goes down, resentment of your civilization's government goes up. Also, maybe the morale takes a hit because a planet's leaders - or the civilization government - are buying food off the black market to feed their fellow folk. And it's a seller's market always and the quality's bad but it's eat garbage or starve.

Wealth: See above comment on food black market. It's a seller's market so you're paying over the odds for food. To feed the hungry people who are too hungry to work/produce. Therefore no work = no tax/income for the planet. A planet/civilization can't produce the bigger, fancier ships, farms, factories etc because of the lack of money.

Influence: Is that planet owned by that other race really going to culture flip to a planet that's suddenly got no food and is poor and miserable about it? Planets culture flipping to another planet is more likely as well.

on Feb 14, 2018

But you cant abandon completely the realism aspect of the game. Arable land? Its not middle ages, its 23rd century for chirstssake!

on Feb 14, 2018

My thoughts: Current system seems ok with some adjustments.

Planet should have base food production, which supports a base population, for example we won't live on mars till we can produce food on mars.

Planet Type should influence how much food can be grown on a planet. A desert planet will likely have much less food than a lush planet. i.e. fewer people live in a desert than in a lush environment. So a desert planet will have a lower base population than a lush planet. 

Planet size could play into this base factor as well. A small lush planet will likely produce much less food than a larger one.

  • Base Farms increase food production
  • Planet resources used as currently do (build better farms).

 

One thing with "resources" being required for different improvements, it would be nice to see variance in them. For example you can have run a factory with Coal (resource), or nuclear power. Two different resources for improvements. Though clearly they have different effects on said production. 

So in the tech tree, easier(earlier) techs require none or easy to get(abundant)  resources. while later techs require more rare resources. This would prevent the problem Taslios mentions in not being able to build an improvement because no resources. Everyone should be able to build easy/low tech improvements with easy to get resources, while the later techs require harder (rarer) to get resources.

 

One thing I don't like about the the current resource implementation is that mid to late game most resources become worthless. This may be a trade issue, but sitting on 1000+ of a resource is like why do I even bother? Only the few space bound resources (i.e. antimatter, etc) seem to be of any value and even then Thulium, compared to others seem much less valuable.

 

So using ideas above, coal plant or solar power. Two different types of of resources. If I only have coal I will use that, which could be bad for planet (moral, or other impact), while solar power would be better.

on Feb 14, 2018

Arcologies are part of solution, its too long to describe and is best explained here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqKQ94DtS54

And another thing is I don't think population should have any effect on production. Shouldn't we have robots that do all that? Population should be for research, culture, money and legions.

 
on Feb 14, 2018

Go4Celerity


Quoting Go4Celerity,

Place holder.  (I have an idea,  but am on my phone)



I like the Cities and Farms, but not how they are working.

My Idea:

 

    • Farms build themselves, they do so on unterraformed tiles after a food deficit is achieved.

 

    • Nothing requires food as a resource "payment"

 

    • Food is a soft cap for population, when pop is greater than food you have the deficit.

 

    • Bread Basket planets and the planet where the deficit is occurring will be more likely to have farms appear, Precursor worlds less likely

 

    • The basic farm may be upgraded as usual once it has spawned

 

    • Create an Agriculture Improvement class with Farming bonuses and assign the title to this line of buildings to separate Food from directly effecting population.

 

    • Make Monsotium Deposit requisite improvements advantageous options rather than tech tree roadblocks, possibly with short spurs on the tech tree to offer even better Monsotiom-reliant developments.

 

    • Use Gauntlets idea for base food based on fractions of planet class

 


 

I do like the idea of things, like farms building themselves on tiles currently unusable by me which I would adapt to. 

on Feb 14, 2018


I don't think i like the OP idea because of how random the game makes those type of resources and how you can become crippled if someone comes by and destroys it. I do not mind how food is made atm but do see other problems with it.

I've been saying that for a while. I can put all my leaders unto farming, start building cities with the extra food, remove the leaders, go into negative food, and the cities will still finish and population will grow. If something was done with starvation there would be more of a difference with silicon life. They can't starve.

on Feb 14, 2018

Gauntlet03

Continuing on this... 

 

Planet Class/3 = Food

+

Extreme Planet Class/5 = Food

+

Occasional resource improvement

= Total food supply

 

Techs give some bonuses to the formulas. Rebalance the city food costs, etc.

Lower pop to production bonuses since we've reopened so much land for development as factories etc. As desired .

 

 

How about all unused tiles produce food (a variable supply depending on the tile and/or planet type) as long as you don't build on them. Some improvements could increased the food they produce.

 

So basically, almost everything is arable land, to some degre. Just like in real life, actually. Settlers can do basic farming on every tile of the planet, as long as there isn't infrastructure occupying the place. Then, some buildings can represent the infrastructure needed to produce greater amounts of food.

on Feb 14, 2018

Werewindlefr

How about all unused tiles produce food (a variable supply depending on the tile and/or planet type) as long as you don't build on them. Some improvements could increased the food they produce.

So basically, almost everything is arable land, to some degre. Just like in real life, actually. Settlers can do basic farming on every tile of the planet, as long as there isn't infrastructure occupying the place. Then, some buildings can represent the infrastructure needed to produce greater amounts of food.

That's a good idea. It combines food as a background mechanic (mentioned earlier in this thread) with a new strategy: Not building something increases surplus food.

It seems like that would be easy for the AI to handle too.