Brad Wardell's site for talking about the customization of Windows.
Published on February 14, 2015 By Frogboy In PC Gaming

I don't really have a dog in the console wars. Personally, I think both the new consoles are pretty outstanding from a hardware point of view.

That said, a few uncomfortable truths:

  1. The PS4 hardware is better. Significantly. There's no amount of hand waving that make XBO's choice of DDR3 go away.
  2. People are too hung up on hardware. Hardware mattered more in the 90s but software is king. All the HW in the world won't make a DirectX 9 game be able to deliver more than 10k batches per frame today.  
  3. The visual difference between an XBO and a PS4 game are going to ultimately be trivial. 
  4. DirectX 12 will make a big difference for the XBO in the long run.
  5. Sony will almost certainy adopt the next OpenGL spec (or Mantle) which will even the playing field.
  6. The graphics stacks on the PS4 and the XBO currently are not very parallel so there's a lot of room to grow.
  7. The raw computing power of the XBO and PS4 is about 6 times the previous generation was.
  8. The previous generation graphics stack never maximized the use of the hardware or came very close imo.

 


Comments (Page 1)
on Feb 15, 2015

I'd hate to be this buy, but...

 

on Feb 15, 2015

I too am a member of the glorious PC master race, but I have an Xbox one, and 2 360's (one I bought in 2009, and the other was a slim with a 500gb hd I picked up for cheap on black Friday). 

I am a happy Xbox one owner. I like the easy TV, streaming video, bluray integration it offers. It is also more stable and reliable than my 2014 pc. The games look good enough, though Alien Isolation seems to stutter on it occasionally, and I should have got it on PC.

I would rather turn over the xboxes to the kids than my PC. Also, the EA access bundle is a great value right now, and I use the kinect voice integration on a daily basis.

Though because of steam, gog, humble bundle, gmg, gamersgate, the stardock store and the occasional purchase from amazon, I have more PC games than I can play. Digital games are so convenient and reasonably priced they have spoiled me. On the Xbox one, they do have some digital sales which are really good (like the alien isolation sale) but for the most part it's cheaper to buy games on disk. Plus if you buy a game on disk you can sell them later.

Disks are fine as an install medium and I appreciate their use for that purpose since I have a crappy data cap. However, I hate using them, and my xbox's bluray drive is acting up and will probably need a repair soon. I wish there was a way to move the license from the disk so we could play without. Then have a way to put it back on the disk if people wanted to sale the game, like a NFC chip or something.

on Feb 15, 2015

I honestly don't know why they exist considering today's prices on PC hardware. I prefer investing in a PC hands down.

That said, I have a PS4 for the simple reason that I love their Playstation Plus program (Free games? Sure. REALLY good free games? HELL YES.) and I love my Vita and the interoperability is too cool and I love being able to cross buy. 

Plus, Netflix and Instant Video. 

on Feb 15, 2015

XWerewolfX

I honestly don't know why they exist considering today's prices on PC hardware. I prefer investing in a PC hands down.

That said, I have a PS4 for the simple reason that I love their Playstation Plus program (Free games? Sure. REALLY good free games? HELL YES.) and I love my Vita and the interoperability is too cool and I love being able to cross buy. 

Plus, Netflix and Instant Video. 

With usb everything & hdmi connectors on every tv sold in the last  decade+, I'm not too sure either, I think now that mini-atx & micro-itx systems are starting to become  useful as more than thin clients having a pc in the living room will start to become less & less bizarre. But to be fair, when I recently installed steam on my mom's brand new pc & told her she could buy speakers, or connect it to her tv via hdmi if she wants sound, she looked at the recently explained Evolve video again & asked "so if it was a crappy rainy day or something & [some family that lives near her] were all over, we could play that game together if I connected it to the tv instead of the wii?".... Even games that once supported splitscreen play on the console generally do not keep that feature in the port.  I'm not sure what would even happen with multiple gamepads on a pc, but multiple mice were disappointingly useless last I tried & multiple joysticks temf to just result in needing to choose which is active in games

on Feb 15, 2015

The "free" games on Xbox live are OK. The Xbox one games have been pretty underwhelming, that being said Max the Curse of brotherhood, Limbo, and #idarb have all been enjoyable. On the 360 Dishonored, the Witcher 2, and Halo Reach have all been great "free" games.

As far as game exclusives go, the last of us remastered was very tempting and if I had of been able to find a better deal would have picked up a ps4 this past holiday instead of a second Xbox 360.

 

While hardware prices are cheap, I just don't think you can get a pc (not counting the monitor, keyboard, mouse, or controller) that includes a bluray and will out perform an Xbox one for 315 dollars, which is the price of a used Xbox one at gamestop minus 25 bucks for an off brand 360 controller. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my perception of pc prices. 

I think consoles are a great complimentary device to a PC. I would rather play shooters, sports games, platformers, some RPGs and minecraft on a console. For strategy games, isometric RPGs, tactical RPGs, and simulation games I will always perfer to play them on a PC with mouse and a keyboard.

on Feb 15, 2015

Eventhough the Playstation 4 is more powerful, will it ever show except for exclusive games?   So in a way, it may have been wasteful of Sony to make it stronger than the Xbone.

 

The most interesting thing here is that the Xbone will use Dx 12 while Playstation 4 uses OpenGL. REALLY interesting for me as a hardwareenthusiast!

on Feb 15, 2015

killswitch469

  • Though hardware prices are cheap, I just don't think you can get a pc (not counting the monitor, keyboard, mouse, or controller) that includes a bluray and will out perform an Xbox one for 315 dollars, which is the price of a used Xbox one at gamestop minus 25 bucks for an off brand 360 controller. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my perception of pc prices. 
  • I think consoles are a great complimentary device to a PC. I would rather play shooters, sports games, platformers, some RPGs and minecraft on a console. For strategy games, isometric RPGs, tactical RPGs, and simulation games I will always perfer to play them on a PC with mouse and a keyboard.

 

I made your post into bulletpoints for the two separate points because they merit individual replies....

Regarding your first point... you don't need to buy a monitor any more than you need to buy a television for a console, an hdmi cable & existing TV will work fine.  as to bluray, I don't know why it's relevant given the realities of digital delivery, but maybe you really want bluray movies or something so 42$ for an external usb bluray drive (bestbuy had them ~49.xx$).  As to the more important part of that first point however, it doesn't need to outperform an XBO today because it can be cheaply upgraded as needs arise, look at the xbox 360 since the xbo is still bleeding edge new... the graphics card in the 360 was a custom built thing & lacks a direct equivalent(xbo too), look at the prices on the cards being discussed here.  Back in 2008 those were pretty impressively priced cards to be sure but here in Feb of 2015 when new 360 games are still being released, every single one of those cards is in, or can be eclipsed by bargain bin parts. The keyboard/mouse thing is only partially relevant as well, my current keyboard is something like 15 years old, the mouse is like 3(?), but that was more because a cup of tea gave me an excuse to buy that gimicky looking naga (which after turned out to allow me to game when I had a stroke).  I'm not sure why buying an off brand xbo controller for a px is relevant either considering xbo only comes with one of them

 

Getting into the second point, yes certain game types lend themselves better to certain control schemes, but the biggest impediment to livingroom pc's  in the past was a mix of cost & size, but both have come down drastically in recent years while drastically improving performance enough to allow those tiny machines to actually play games that don't run in a browser using flash.

on Feb 15, 2015

Tetrasodium


Quoting killswitch469,



    • Though hardware prices are cheap, I just don't think you can get a pc (not counting the monitor, keyboard, mouse, or controller) that includes a bluray and will out perform an Xbox one for 315 dollars, which is the price of a used Xbox one at gamestop minus 25 bucks for an off brand 360 controller. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my perception of pc prices. 

    • I think consoles are a great complimentary device to a PC. I would rather play shooters, sports games, platformers, some RPGs and minecraft on a console. For strategy games, isometric RPGs, tactical RPGs, and simulation games I will always perfer to play them on a PC with mouse and a keyboard.





 

I made your post into bulletpoints for the two separate points because they merit individual replies....

Regarding your first point... you don't need to buy a monitor any more than you need to buy a television for a console, an hdmi cable & existing TV will work fine.  as to bluray, I don't know why it's relevant given the realities of digital delivery, but maybe you really want bluray movies or something so 42$ for an external usb bluray drive (bestbuy had them ~49.xx$).  As to the more important part of that first point however, it doesn't need to outperform an XBO today because it can be cheaply upgraded as needs arise, look at the xbox 360 since the xbo is still bleeding edge new... the graphics card in the 360 was a custom built thing & lacks a direct equivalent(xbo too), look at the prices on the cards being discussed here.  Back in 2008 those were pretty impressively priced cards to be sure but here in Feb of 2015 when new 360 games are still being released, every single one of those cards is in, or can be eclipsed by bargain bin parts. The keyboard/mouse thing is only partially relevant as well, my current keyboard is something like 15 years old, the mouse is like 3(?), but that was more because a cup of tea gave me an excuse to buy that gimicky looking naga (which after turned out to allow me to game when I had a stroke).  I'm not sure why buying an off brand xbo controller for a px is relevant either considering xbo only comes with one of them

 

Getting into the second point, yes certain game types lend themselves better to certain control schemes, but the biggest impediment to livingroom pc's  in the past was a mix of cost & size, but both have come down drastically in recent years while drastically improving performance enough to allow those tiny machines to actually play games that don't run in a browser using flash.

 

I think you missed the point of my first bullet point. I know and agree that the PC is the more powerful platform. However, right now on the low end I think that consoles provide a price to performance value that is hard to beat. I'm saying at 340 dollars, buying a computer that has a controller, bluray capabilities, and nothing else, I don't think it will outperform a used Xbox one on multiplatform AAA games. If you do know of a readily available PC that can do that, even a used model, then please show me. I may be wrong, but at that price point I think consoles win. At 400 vs. The PS4 I think consoles still probably win. At 500 against an Xbox one with a kinect, I think consoles probably lose. If you have 650 or more to spend for you PC, then of course you'll out perform a console. Also, in time I think the performance delta between PCs and consoles will increase, but at today's prices I think for low end next gen, consoles are a better value.

on Feb 15, 2015

killswitch469



I think you missed the point of my first bullet point. I know and agree that the PC is the more powerful platform. However, right now on the low end I think that consoles provide a price to performance value that is hard to beat. I'm saying at 340 dollars, buying a computer that has a controller, bluray capabilities, and nothing else, I don't think it will outperform a used Xbox one on multiplatform AAA games. If you do know of a readily available PC that can do that, even a used model, then please show me. I may be wrong, but at that price point I think consoles win. At 400 vs. The PS4 I think consoles still probably win. At 500 against an Xbox one with a kinect, I think consoles probably lose. If you have 650 or more to spend for you PC, then of course you'll out perform a console. Also, in time I think the performance delta between PCs and consoles will increase, but at today's prices I think for low end next gen, consoles are a better value.

 

No, my biggest problem with your post is that it setup an extremely contrived & unrealistic situation specifically to make itself true.  Your reply continues to do so by specifically limiting it to "outperform [the brand new & likely sold at a loss] XBO todayand "outperform the XBO" specifically "on AAA Multiplatform games" and "it needs to cost less than x$" after  "you include the price for a bunch of additional irrelevant accessories".  a better & more realistic question might be "name five games capable of "putting that hypothetical system under the sort of strain crysis back in the day  could put on the top end systems with all settings maxed"....  Five too many?  How about three?... two?... one?....  At least that's a reality based thing.....  either that, or you continually wanting bluray capability OOB (a sub-50$ usb addon)and  a monitor and a keyboard and a controller (really, a controller on a pc?!) should probably include the price of a tv in the console cost...

 

edit: I don't see a need to create a new post for this , but when I said name some games that will stress the demanded hardware regardless of price, being given a list of games to benchmark against when none of the listed games will stress the system suggests to me that there is no point in continuing things

on Feb 15, 2015

Please go back and read what I said. I specifically said without the monitor or other accessories except a game controller. The reason I'm insistent on adding bluray is because both the xbo and ps4 have them.

 

I'll give you five games to benchmark it against. GTA V, Farcry 4, Shadow of Mordor, Call of Duty Advanced Warfighter and Destiny. 

 

340 to outperform a used Xbox and 380 to outperform a used ps4, and the system can be used or refurbished as well, as long as it has a comparable warranty.

 

It's not contrived, it's a matter of me driving to the GameStop 2 miles from my house or going with a PC that currently outperforms those two readily available options at their curret price point while matching their capabilities.

on Feb 15, 2015

So... can you guys not continue the reading comprehension argument?

 

It's funny and all, but I was enjoying the amusing thread on two inferior platforms from my 2560x1440 resolution primary display.

on Feb 15, 2015

Well right now I'm stuck without a PC, console or tablet on my phone until I get home tomorrow.

I don't know what's worse 1280x768 resolution, autocorrect, or all of the screen manipulation I must go through to see most of what I'm typing, lol

on Feb 15, 2015

killswitch469

Well right now I'm stuck without a PC, console or tablet on my phone until I get home tomorrow.

I don't know what's worse 1280x768 resolution, autocorrect, or all of the screen manipulation I must go through to see most of what I'm typing, lol

I hate posting to these forums on my phone  something about the wysiwig buttons up there interacting with the textarea makes text editing maddening & screws things up with backspace or typing not working if autocorrect, touch complete or a couple other things kick in.  Having the quote/ediut/new thread buttons being hidden doesn't help much either

on Feb 16, 2015

I can't disagree with any of those points, not that I'm really qualified to try. I can't say that I'm particularly excited about DX12 or glNext. I like pretty games as much as the next guy, but gameplay is what really needs a shot in the arm in my opinion. I feel like I've been playing the same five games for the last decade, and under the hood tech isn't going to solve that problem.

People are too hung up on hardware. Hardware mattered more in the 90s but software is king.

This is easily the most important point. Software and services. I could drone on about the greater power or vastly superior industrial design of the PS4, but I chose it over the Xbone for exclusive games (Uncharted, The Order, Bloodborne, et al), better value-adds (PS Plus), and a lack of advertisements (the xbone interface is ugly enough without ads).

The small resolution bump in certain games wasn't a big factor for me.

on Feb 16, 2015

Brad,

 

Just out of curiosity, how much of a laggard is the Wii U hardware wise to the PS4 and XBO? Also, you think that Sony will respond to Direct 12 with OpenGL or Mantle, do you think Nintendo will as well, or would it even help them?

Are you able to give us an estimate of what kind of time frame are we looking at for DX12 to come to the XBO and OpenGL or Mantle to come to the PS4?